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Draft Rankings and Mock Draft

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by deljzc, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. deljzc

    deljzc Well-Known Member

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    I have put together my annual Draft Rankings spreadsheet at my blog. It's about 95% done with one more likely update coming before draft day in a couple weeks.

    My blog also has a 2-round mock draft with comments.

    Thought I would just share with anyone that is interested. As always, comments and criticism is welcome.

    Thanks.

    http://deljzc.blogspot.com/
     
  2. TwentyFourSeven

    TwentyFourSeven Well-Known Member

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    Love reading mocks. I don't have much input because I don't do all the research, I just think it's fun to read. Coby Fleener to the Bills I could definitely see.

    However, Vontaze Burfict I heard could go undrafted or be a VERY late pick. But, to each their own. I don't do my research on the draft prospects as much as I'd like.
     
  3. blair

    blair Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Del. Great read and lots of time put into it !
     
  4. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    Have you ever looked back at your predictions/mock verses what finally happened. I was just curious about hit %. Heck, I have more faith in yours than the over paid pundits. Thanks.
     
  5. bigsteelerfaninky

    bigsteelerfaninky Well-Known Member

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    If he's not careful he will take mels job
     
  6. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    Pretty good. I'll be surprised if Hightower and Martin are on the board when we pick. But Hightower/Silatolu is my favorite combination for us. I don't think it happens because I think Silatolu goes in the 30s or 40s, but I'd be thrilled if it did happen.

    I don't think there's Burfict goes in the 2nd, but for awhile I've had the Ravens taking him in the 3rd. I think he'll have a Brandon Spikes thing happen. Spikes was slated to go in the 5th because of his terrible numbers, and the Patriots took him in the 2nd. I'm sure some team will roll the dice on him in the 3rd.

    What really bugs me is that for awhile everyone had him going to the Ravens in the first as "the next Ray Lewis," and I was totally fine with that. Now I'm worried they'll trade in front of us for Hightower.
     
  7. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    the more i watch hightower the more i see a clean up guy. alabama has one of if not the best defensive fronts i have seen in awhile. they opened lanes for hightower to run through untouched. i don't think he'll get that luxaury in the NFL. sideline to sideline and on alot of run plays he gets there after first contact alot. i like chapman, but i think the best two guys on bama's front will come out next year. these guys took alot of heat off of hightower and he got the glory. i think he's a tick overvalued. that's what i see from what i've watched. i hope we don't take him first. :cool:
     
  8. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Del welcome back, haven't heard from you in a long time. Where are you hanging out?
    As always alot of thought and time put in, thanks.
     
  9. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    First of all, I disagree 100% that Hightower has trouble taking on blockers when compared to other ILBs. All ILBs will get blocked on occasion when a guy who outweighs them by 60 lbs is able to meet them in the hole. If you want to see a highly rated guy who can't handle blockers, look at Kuechly and how many tackles he gets that are 8+ yards downfield because he won't even try to take on a blocker. If anything, Hightower is far more physical with O-linemen than any other ILB prospect I've seen in years (and I have watched a LOT of film on Hightower). When you say that he's a "clean up" guy - that's exactly what our defense - and Alabama's defense - are designed to do for ILBs. He played the role perfectly. As a bonus, he routinely demolished SEC right tackles when 'Bama put him out on the edge on passing downs. So, with a single draft pick we get a 2 down thumper for running downs who can also be an elite inside/outside pass rusher on passing downs. Oh, and he also proved himself as a quality field general by making the calls and adjustments for the best college defense in the past decade or more. My ONLY concern about Hightower is that he will probably be gone in the early 20's. I have said before that I think that Houston will trade up for him, and that either Cleveland or Cinci will be happy to oblige to stick it to us or the Rats.
     
  10. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    First of all, I disagree 100% that Hightower has trouble taking on blockers when compared to other ILBs. All ILBs will get blocked on occasion when a guy who outweighs them by 60 lbs is able to meet them in the hole. If you want to see a highly rated guy who can't handle blockers, look at Kuechly and how many tackles he gets that are 8+ yards downfield because he won't even try to take on a blocker. If anything, Hightower is far more physical with O-linemen than any other ILB prospect I've seen in years (and I have watched a LOT of film on Hightower). When you say that he's a "clean up" guy - that's exactly what our defense - and Alabama's defense - are designed to do for ILBs. He played the role perfectly. As a bonus, he routinely demolished SEC right tackles when 'Bama put him out on the edge on passing downs. So, with a single draft pick we get a 2 down thumper for running downs who can also be an elite inside/outside pass rusher on passing downs. Oh, and he also proved himself as a quality field general by making the calls and adjustments for the best college defense in the past decade or more. My ONLY concern about Hightower is that he will probably be gone in the early 20's. I have said before that I think that Houston will trade up for him, and that either Cleveland or Cinci will be happy to oblige to stick it to us or the Rats.[/quote:3q9w3182]

    first of all you need to read what i wrote and you need to look at some more film i guess. did i say anywhere that he has trouble taking on blockers? uh no. second , if you really watch his film, he comes up the middle making his sack untouched. as far as a cleanup guy, he's rarely the first tackler to the ball on run plays. less than half of his tackles are solo stops. 3rd , i've said the same about kuechley. hightower has looked good because of bama's front and outside lb'ers. we have very good OLB'ers and really don't need another one right now. if that's the reason you want him here, then who will we bench to get him on the edge? woodley? harrison? worilds? carter? i just see everyone going ga ga over his highlights and not seeing alot of guys around him doing the dirty work for him to have these highlights. there is a big difference to making calls at alabama and making calls in the nfl, especially when the front 7 at alabama are owning offenses at the point of attack. sure it makes him look like a genius. ya need to look a little deeper. most likely the reason he has dropped from a first round lock. what we need him to do here is far different then just rushing the passer from the outside. are we really that scared that we are doomed if he goes to a rival? really? he's a good player but not what everyone is making him out to be as some kind of defense changing savior. after what i saw from our defensive front in denver, i don't see our front being able to give him those unchallenged efforts. not one highlight showed the bama defensive front being handled by any offensive line. that made his job a pretty easy one in college. :cool:
     
  11. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    OK Mac, I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said that Hightower is a "clean up" player, and that he benefits from the linemen in front of him. That's fine. I interpreted that as implying that his linemen need to keep him "clean" for him to be effective because he can't handle blockers himself (a very common criticism of ILB many prospects over the years). However, with respect to your other points, I simply don't agree. I've watched entire games, not just highlights (as you seem to imply). I did note in another thread that the highlights that were selected for him by some video makers were very heavily weighted toward pass rushing, and show that he has excellent rush moves, but my evaluation is based on watching entire games. Yes, a big part of why I want him is because he gives us another potentially elite pass rusher off the edge (and up the middle). We only have 2 of those guys, and our rush suffered mightily when Woodley was out. I suspect that part of our disagreement over his value is that you may think Worilds is a solid player, and I think that he is nothing more than a career backup who had 1 good game filling in for Woodley. Also, Harrison is great, but he'll turn 34 in May. I see Hightower as a flexible guy that can impact all over the field. The player that he reminds me of the most is Adalius Thomas in his prime. A player like that is great value at pick #24. Would I trade up for him? Probably not - unless we only had to give up a 5th rounder to make the jump. I don't think he's a savior for our defense. I do think he's a solid value at pick #24, and can play more than one role depending on what we need. Long-term, I see him as an OLB. That's where my eyes tell me that he'll impact.

    No need to respond. I'm not going to change your mind, and you are sure as hell not going to change mine :)
     
  12. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    fair enough elvis. 4 total sacks in 4 years of college ball does not make a good sack artist. less then half his tackles are solo's. every year i might add. i don't see it. i've watched alot of the kid too. :shrug: :facepalm: :cool:
     
  13. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Hold on there. If you watch the games, you'll see quite a few hurries that forced bad/early throws. In fact, I checked the stats and he had 17 hurries the past 2 seasons. By way of comparison, Nick Perry had ZERO, Ingram had 7, Coples had 19 and Mercilus had 8. They were full time DEs, while he was only a part time pass rusher.
     
  14. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Hold on there. If you watch the games, you'll see quite a few hurries that forced bad/early throws. In fact, I checked the stats and he had 17 hurries the past 2 seasons. By way of comparison, Nick Perry had ZERO, Ingram had 7, Coples had 19 and Mercilus had 8. They were full time DEs, while he was only a part time pass rusher.[/quote:182mvxiz]


    couples had 34 to go with 17.5 sacks the last 2 years. perry was a 4-3 DE with 13.5 sacks the last 2 years. ingram had 19 sacks. mercillus had 16 sacks last year alone. all with more tackles for loss. i just don't think we are going to use a first on a backup pass rusher. :cool:
     
  15. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    We've had out issues but I've always thought you to be a fanactic wannabe NFL General manager. I'm not being mean but in my way complementary as I feel your dream job would be to replace our GM Colbert. You do more work pre-draft than any fan I know.

    Guess what? I disagree with you. 2 rd mock you have us taking Hightower( like everybody else ) and I really don't want this. I think he is a smart big thumper. He's a perfect 4-3 mike. He can play ILB in a 4-3 but he's not he best ILB to come along in a long while. The NFL is loving TEs and slot WRs and that means defenses must adjust with better cover LBers. That's why Farrior is gone. He was still our best field general and still a solid tackler,run defender and inside rusher but his age slowed him in coverage. Hightower would work if Timmons was a better cover guy ( freetibet & others believe timmons a better cover guy than I do ) but he is avg at best. You have safety Mark Barron and OT Martin behind Hightower. If Barron is there @ 24 can we really pass on him for hightower? Same with Martin.

    In the 2nd rd you have us taking Amini Silatolu OG.... I like him but he isn't 1st rd worthy and he will NOT be there for us in the 2nd. I'd fallout if he was.

    You don't like Konz C for the badgers. I do. He's no Kalil or Pouncey but still a solid big mobile interior lineman. I've watched him play and and he'll be a solid starter for someone. We need interior line strengthening, both offense and defense. We have playmakers on both sides of the ball. Right now only Martin and Barron could make me re-think our 1st rd pick.

    Sidenote- You have russell wilson QB ( badgers & wolfpack ) as the 12th best QB. Man I just don't see that. He can make every throw.As a rookie for the wolfpack he had 17 TDs and 1 int. As a badger he learned the playbook in 1 month, became the starter, lead one of the best teams in the country and set some record for passing effiency( not sure the details) . You say he's just too short. Okay, so is all the scouts, but think of this, he just one inch shorter than drew bress who just broke marinos single season record. He's 5' 11" but played behind the Biggest line in the country, they're bigger than the packers and many many NFL clubs. If he's there in the 6th rd, as he most likely will be, I'd be thrilled to draft him. I like him more than I ever liked Dixon.

    Cajun-
     
  16. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    I was against Hightower because of his speed/coverage skills, but I may be coming around on him, his blitzing skill are pretty good, and we have been lacking a top end blitzer from the ILB position in a long while.

    If Hightower excels at taking on blockers that is definitely a plus. The knock on Kendricks, who we just had in for a visit, is that he struggles with blockers and therefore isn't a good fit for the 3-4.

    Maybe its not so much him I don't like Hightower, its just I hope we draft a elite guard and put our OL woes to rest once and for all.
     
  17. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

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    The other knock I've heard on Kendricks, and I've read it in a couple of places but none with hard-core NFL type insights, is that Kendricks doesn't have the intelligence to captain our defense. Thats one of the things that our front office would know about, though.
     
  18. deljzc

    deljzc Well-Known Member

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    Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

    That's what makes the draft fun. I think Hightower is an ideal 3-4 inside linebacker for us based on his use as a pass rusher at Alabama (which I am growing to think is a requirement for our ILB's now). I do not think ILB in the 3-4 should be heading towards lighter, faster players that can turn-and-run with TE's. I think that's a losing battle and when you try to draft speed over "thumper" ability, you sacrifice the ability to pressure the line-of-scrimmage. In Hightower's case I think is plenty savvy of a player to do very well in zone and limited man-to-man coverages.

    And yes for our needs and in my talent opinion, Hightower should be higher on the Steelers board vs. both Barron and Martin. However, I do have them all "1C" talents, so they are very equivalent to me on the overall board.

    We'll have to wait and see if Silatolu moves up the draft board as much as you believe. He's still a very small school prospect and despite his talent, it's hard to see guys like that (especially interior O-linemen) move that far up the draft board. Normally, the small-school guys you see move into the first are athletic freaks or have elite speed. When it comes to interior O-line, teams traditionally like big programs and lots of experience versus division 1 talent. That said, if he's there for us in round 2, I would prefer him over some of the other options (Brooks, Washington, Osemele). I am fairly confident that unless we draft Glenn in round 1, I think we are picking from that list in round 2.

    I know I am in the minority on Peter Konz, but every time I watch him, I just don't see what the fuss is about. I think Zeitler is NOTICEABLY better and in fact covers for Konz on a lot of occasions. I think Konz doesn't play with a lot of power, I think he is a one-trick pony with regards to his blocking style and I didn't get many opportunities to see him one-on-one in pass protection without getting help from either guard.

    I have Konz as a 3A talent and I wouldn't draft him in round 2 if I was GM of a team.
     
  19. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    4 sacks in 4 years with the talent in front of him owning the line of scrimmage doesn't impress me in the least. thumper? really? not seeing it. :cool:
     
  20. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    With the rapid ascension of Chandler Jones in the past 2 weeks I thought I would revisit and see your thoughts on him. I had him as a late 2/early 3 type of guy, now I am reading a possible Top 10 pick. Fairly shocking. Even Mayock (whose opinion I trust more than most) has him as the 9th best prospect.

    Perhaps I have missed something on this guy, but I just don't see where the hype is coming from. This guy might have a Tyson Alualu type of rise on draft day.
     
  21. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    The Huddle Report put a 1st round grade on Chandler Jones in February. I guess the rest of the TV/online draft "experts" are catching up. I haven't watched enough of him to have a solid opinion because I see him as a pure 4-3 guy, and thus not a fit for us. However, what I did see of him suggests to me that there is big upside potential if he gets into the right situation. Possibly even JPP level upside. I think that's what people are seeing as draft day approaches. It's risky to draft a raw player for the promise of upside, but sometimes you hit a home run.
     
  22. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    Same here, and I don't really get to watch any College games since they tend to be shown over here on obscure subscription channels.

    So cheers Del! And good to see you around again.
     
  23. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    I just don't see the freakish athlete in Jones that was present in JPP. I see Jones as a 4-3 LDE. I think if he goes as high as some are predicting, it will be a reach.
     
  24. deljzc

    deljzc Well-Known Member

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    I have bumped Chandler Jones up to a 3A prospect on my final draft board (see other thread), but I agree with you NB that I don't see 1st round talent there and don't really understand the sudden jump in his stock.

    They keep comparing him to his brother, who I liked coming out of Syracuse in 2010 (4th round grade) and was drafted in round 5 I believe by the Ravens. But I think Arthur Jones was actually a better player in college than Chandler is.

    To me he's a lot of arms and legs at this point and isn't really explosive out of his stance or around the edge. He's a "tweener". Some teams might want him to add 30 lbs. and turn him into a Calais Campbell type player. Some might like to get him to 275 lbs. and play a traditional 4-3 DE as a complementary pass rusher, strong-side player.

    I will say his tape versus Pitt was impressive. I think he had great hustle and made some nice players. But I just don't see 1st round "wow" type stuff, but then again, I don't see that in this draft overall much at all either.
     

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