Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Blast Furnace, May 18, 2019.
In this article,we see that Ben had 10 of his 16 interceptions with Brown as target...
Why is the running game going to be better? Teams will probably focus on defending it even more with Brown gone. Are you betting on some huge impact from Snell? Or more of a commitment to the run? What have you seen from this coaching staff that tells you they will be more patient with the run rather than give up on it and put games in Roethlisberger's hands as they did so often last season?
We have at least 2 good running back this year vs only one in Conner that the Steelers had confidence last year ... Conner and Samuel had at least 4.5 yards per run which was way better than Bell in 2017 .... If the opponent is more focused to stop the running game, well Ben and his receivers are good enough to have success.
I do not think the steelers are going to be 31st again for the rushing attempts and yards.
Of course I did not have a response from you about the fact that 10 of the 16 interceptions by Ben were with Brown as target .... or the fact that Wallace, even if he was not the WR that Brown was had a lot of double team at his peak!
I honestly hadn't gotten to it yet. I've got a lot of posts directed at me on multiple threads.
I had already acknowledged that the turnover ratio might get a little better without Roethlisberger forcing the ball to Brown, but Roethlisberger's penchant for boneheaded interceptions predates Brown's arrival and rise to stardom. I think Roethlisberger is going to find more situations when no receiver can get open this season, not less, due to the departure of Brown. Wouldn't that lead to more passes forced into coverage, though perhaps spread out among more intended receivers?
We do not know that yet .... Ryan Switzer was our 3rd WR with the most target (44) and yards (253) in 2018 ... I think we can have 3 productive WR in 2019 with JuJu,Washington and Moncrief ... We will see but it's possible .... If Ryan Switzer is still our 3rd WR with the most target, we are in trouble of course.
I'm making a well-educated guess. Yes, Roethlisberger forced the ball to Brown quite a bit. He also had Brown bail him out when nobody was open quite a bit.
With Ben I suspect it will lead to more running around on broken plays, and maybe more sacks.
I didn't make anything up, I didn't say you used the word fail, I asked a question, whats the opposite of success? You and others are saying AB is responsible for JuJus success, a large part of it anyway. I was merely following that train of thought through to the end. If JuJu posts similar numbers this year, AB was in fact, not responsible for his success. Then you applied an argument to me that I never made.
You can't claim that Dobbs performance in the Raiders game proved you right. You only have part of the equation.
A) You have no idea how Landry would have preformed. He was barely above a .500 QB with most of his success coming against the Browns.
B) You can't claim that Ben was moving the ball easily because that is to imply Landry is as good as Ben. He's far from it.
C) How many series did he even play? 4? 5? If you are going to draw a conclusion from such a small sample size then you can't minimize the job he did when he came in against the Ravens. That was a running play that he audible out of to complete a pass that helped put that game away. Could have ended much differently had they punted from their end zone. The way I see it, he is 1-1 when asked to do his job. Exactly what I'd expect from a backup.
D) Landry is still unemployed. Except for a couple teams that wanted to pick his brain, he can't make a roster, nobody wants this guy.
5) He's not the reason they lost that game. You'd have a better argument if he threw a pick 6. He shouldn't have even been playing. Coaching mistake all the way.
Side note: I prefer your last reply and this type of exchange much better to the snarky argumentative back and forth you and I have both been engaging in. It's not enjoyable coming here like that and makes the board less enjoyable for those around it as well. Let's stick with this.
I never said Brown was responsible for Smith-Schuster's success. I said he helped. I said if Smith-Schuster's numbers decline, that is evidence of how much Brown's presence helped him. The rest of what you attributed to me did not come from me.
I can absolutely claim that the play of Dobbs against the Raiders proved me right. You are certainly welcome to question my evidence, but it was a valid claim. It was the one time all season they needed a No. 2 quarterback for more than a handful of plays and he failed miserably. Jones had shown he could move that offense when given the opportunity in the past.
Four series is a hell of a lot more than one throw. Four possessions is a much bigger sample size than one throw.
What happened to Jones after he was cut is irrelevant. I said all along, even before he was cut, that his value to the Steelers was far higher than it would be to anybody else due to his experience in the system and his experience working with the other players on that offense.
Dobbs wasn't the only reason the Steelers lost that game, but the lack of a competent backup was a huge factor. Aside from one play, the Raiders generated no pass rush in that game. Roethlisberger was carving them up when he got hurt. He continued to do so when he returned. The difference was the quarterback. For four possessions, the offense completely disappeared, allowing the Raiders the opportunity to rally. Two of those possessions ended in turnovers by Dobbs.
I always prefer this type of exchange. Argumentative is fine, but snark which then turns into personal attacks is not. I appreciate that you acknowledge your role in the negative as I do mine.
The "alternate universe" is you assuming that Landry is a viable #2. Dobbs beat out LOL in preseason. How viable was Landry?
You said AB's presence played a big part of JuJu's success. Maybe you misrepresented yourself but that statement imply's AB is more responsible for Jujus success than JuJu is. JuJu benefited from AB's double teams as did every other receiver on the field but it is not the reason for his success and he will prove that this year.
You are using speculation as proof. Thats not even close to proof. Ben was moving the ball at will, Landry doesn't come remotely close to Bens talent level. The fact that he doesn't have a job is relevant in showing that you are grossly overestimating his talent.
4 series or 1 throw he did his job once when called upon and once he did not. And thats really high standards you are holding a backup QB too because he failed with just 4 series to add points to a game they were leading in. He didn't come close to losing that game for them.
Why do I feel like @FootballAnalyst98 is back?
Dobbs didn't beat him out in the preseason. The Steelers sacrificed the present for the future. They kept the younger, cheaper player because Jones was only under contract for one more season.
Again, no. I never said Brown was more responsible for Smith-Schuster's success than Smith-Schuster was. That's a false assumption on your part. Please stick to my actual words rather than twisting them into some other meaning.
Aside from one play, the Raiders weren't getting pressure on the quarterback. Jones had shown far more in the regular season than Dobbs. He would have given the offense a legitimate shot to move the ball even with no running game. Dobbs did not give them that.
You talked about sample sizes being too small, yet now you want to dismiss the large difference between four possessions and one throw. That's hypocritical on your part.
Dobbs was terrible in that game. For the third or fourth time, I never said he lost it by himself, but he was absolutely one of the reasons he lost. If the backup quarterback came in and played at even a decent level, the Steelers win that game. Instead, we got the ineptitude of Dobbs, which was particularly damaging on a day that the Steelers couldn't run, but the Raiders weren't defending the pass well at all.
You need to check your sources because at the end of last preseason, Dobbs was the Steelers viable #2 QB. He beat out the incumbent Landry Jones. The Steelers ended up cutting Landry because Dobbs was their choice to back-up Ben. If Landry was truly a better viable #2 is only speculation on your part. You do present some strong arguments on why he should have been but wasn't. The fact is the Steelers viable #2 was Dobbs.
I hate to say it but he is correct. The Steelers knew what they had in Jones and didn't feature him much during the preseason. Dobbs didn't win a competition because one never took place. He was given a majority of the preseason snaps to display his skills and he showed them well enough that they did decide to keep him vs the veteran Jones. I can't say if it was right or wrong move based on the Raiders game because much like Landry Jones the took a QB with a much different skill set than Ben and tried to force that square peg into a round hole and it didn't work.
I've direct quoted you several times. You're just back tracking. Choose your words more carefully next time.
They had the lead, his job at that point is not to lose the game. If he got them more points in the process great. Again, you'd have a better argument if he had thrown a pick 6.
It's not hypocritical. I'm talking about a game for a sample size, you are judging a guys ability on 4 series and deeming him inferior to Jones. Try waiting until he has a comparable body of work before making such judgments.
You are greatly over exaggerating Jones worth.
And for the third or fourth time you have no idea how Jones would perform there. So claiming you were proven right is bupkis.
Exactly, they both like to argue with everybody, and are wrong most of the time .
Training Camp CANNOT get here fast enough.
I cannot believe I will agree with this man but Skip Bayless put it best;
"Now that Antonio Brown and Le'Veon Bell are gone, the Steelers have cleared the decks. I liked this team before the draft to win the AFC North and I REALLY like them now with the addition of Devin Bush. Pittsburgh is in much better standing now than they were in 2018. Great things lie ahead for the Steelers."
- Skip Bayless from Undisputed
He is not correct. The Steelers knew what they had in Jones which wasn't much. Dobbs was given a chance to show that he could be a viable #2. He passed the test. He is our viable #2. LOL not catching on with another team even as a backup or injury replacement reaffirms their decision. Would another team picked up Dobbs if he was cut? Possibly. Yes Dobbs has not had much playing time but he offered more than LOL did. Enough with familiarity of the playbook & organization that Landry had, it wasn't enough to be considered the Steelers viable #2. Dobbs will be better than Landry, which isn't saying much.
The facts are what they are, Dobbs is the #2. Saying that Landry would have been a better option at that point is pure speculation, which he is a master of.
thorn058 too respond about fitting a square peg in a round hole, it could be that Dobbs was drafted to replace Landry not Ben. Drafting Rudolf the very next year supports this assumption? Who knows but I won't speculate it as a fact.
He was the No. 2, but he wasn't viable. He showed that against the Raiders. The Steelers couldn't run the ball that day, but Oakland's pass rush sucked and the secondary wasn't very good, either. The Steelers needed Dobbs to step up and he failed miserably, failing to do anything but turn the ball over twice in four possessions.
The Steelers didn't run the preseason last year like a competition. Jones barely saw the field. It was all about saving pennies and going with the guy they could keep for 2019. They put the present aside for the future and it is one of the reasons they lost in Oakland.
Actually, Jones was picked up. We have no evidence that Dobbs would be picked up if the Steelers cut him. That's exactly the kind of speculation you gave me a hard time for using in my posts.
Jones proved he could be a No. 2 in the NFL. Dobbs has not. In fact, the evidence so far indicates can not do it.