Dick Lebeau's defense is pathetic

But then do the coaches get the blame for drafting and or signing these guys?

 

I think that has alot to do with it. Troy isn't playing the traditional safety spot. He should be used more in coverage but maybe that is because of the lackluster run defense. Which starts with McClendon occupying two blockers. If he can't then that leaves the linebackers vunerable hence bringing Troy closer to the line to help out leaving Clark exposed and our corners as well.

 

Well Tomlin said a couple of weeks ago that he considers a strong pass rush the best corner play so I guess that's why they want to bring Troy up.

 

On here they do! lol

But actually you bring up a good point. I agree with mac about the players though. This season, even more so than last season, it seems the players aren't "showing up" for these games. Now the question is who's ultimately to blame? The obvious answer is both the coaches and the players. But like mac said, the coaches just didn't forget how to coach at the NFl level. I think we just aren't seeing quality play from our players this season and they need to step it up big time. I like the idea that NO ONES job is safe right now, especially the players. Hold people accountable for poor performance.

 

If the players don't show up how do you light a fire under them? Bench them?

I was thinking, people don't seem overly enamoured with Hood or Heyward. What about sliding McClendon over and using Fanguopo as the NT? McClendon seems (to me at least) that he would be athletic enough to be a DE, and Fanguopo I feel is a lot like Hampton in clogging up the middle.

 

Yeah it's a tough call and one the HC needs to figure out. That may be part of the problem. Maybe MT isn't the motivator some say he is? I'm not calling out MT just posing the question. I'm like most on here, i just want to figure out why we are struggling so much right now and looking for answers. I've held off on laying blame at MT's feet but he has to hold some blame. I also think the players are a big issue right now and should take on a lot of the blame too. If he feels players aren't showing up he may have to place them on the bench to prove their job's not safe. No one should get a pass for repeated poor performance. Tough call though.

 

one of them, and his side kick Colbert. one was a defensive coach and the other mostly a baseball coach.

I still believe he was a cowher yes man and now with MT the picking of talent has diminished greatly between these two. especially certain positions. especially offense.

MT is a defensive back coach and defensive co-O. john Mitchell a long time steelers coach, assistant HC, a d-line coach. butler a LB as a player and a LB coach. DLB was a DB and a defensive minded HC and co-O. carnell a DB and DB coach.

fichtner was an OC at the college level but now simply a qb coach. haley played golf and never played football, but is our OC. Kirby was a RB and I never thought was a great position coach. we have Bicknell that was always an assistant o-line coach except for one bad year in KC. we have upgraded at wr coach, but that's what he's always been a wr coach. our TE coach has coached o-line and TE in his past, but none of these guys are making the picks.

I go back to wanting an offensive mind to help pick offensive players. it's not working well when most of our talented coaches are defensive minds doing the picking on both sides of the ball.

2nd and 3rd and 4th round players should be pretty ready to step in and play with todays coverage of these draft picks. we are not fitting players with what we want from them in the offense.

 

Thing is mac - we seem to be off on a lot of defensive picks too. I have nothing against Jarvis yet he is too young and we don't know what we have. Shamarko Thomas looks like he could be our future Free Safety. But I never really understood the Worilds pick especially when a prototype ILB in Sean Lee was available - your ideal replacement for Farrior. Bruce Davis never worked out.

The DL picks have really been bewildering. We beat up Ziggy Hood a lot, but I just think the guy isn't a good fit for a 3-4. Heyward has been playing better. We gave up on Ta'amu (spelling?) really quick.

Keenan Lewis was pretty solid, but then we let him go (I guess the cap issues got in the way there).

 

I think the cap issues have got in the way of a lot of defensive picks, and those players seeing the field. worilds was not a bust. i'll bet if he started when JH was in his heyday here worilds would be pretty close to Woodley's numbers. close. keisel playing well has stalled ziggy and heyward. they were not bad picks at the time, when a.smith was still here.

I think Woodley makes to much and i'm really wondering about Timmons anymore. 17 tackles in one game and again out of position the next game as he was early this year and last. he's athletic as heck, but i'm not sure about upstairs in quick processing of offenses.

I also think Colbert and MT are stubborn about they're draft picks and keeping them well beyond their usefulness. Curtis brown for instance. never had it never will and yet we keep him because he's a 4th round pick. I believe this wholeheartedly. they don't want to look like they've made a bad judgement.

we have to man this team with udfa's because some stars at one time are slowing down but being payed like they are still superstars. would you pick up troy right now as a FA for 10 mil a season? would you pick up ike taylor as a FA for 9 mil? would you pickup Woodley as a FA for 14 mil a season? clark? ben for 20 mil.? heath for 8-9 mil? << hell yea. pouncey for how much? cortez? keisel? ziggy?< I think he'll be allowed to test the waters. that's what they have to decide. solid players but not playmakers.

role players in reserve have killed us with the high priced guys eating up the money. the next man up isn't a star at any position.

ta'amu I never cared for, but keeping casey a year to long and losing hoke at the same time we panicked a little. that and we never really found out last year if mclendon could take the spot over. his price was right though. sorry for the rambling.

 

I agree.

 

The saints have an offense that is a threat to score EVERY time the touch the ball. They have a superstar qb who puts up 4-5 tds a game. That makes it so much easier on a defense, because they know the other team has to press.

 

Its more complicated than what's presumed. These are men, men who has lived their lives competing at a top level and having unprecedented success at the HS, college and now pro level. They have the fire, I don't think we have any Albert Hanesworths on our team.

To me its performance or a lack of which is in part due to aging vets, a decline in talent, and poor preparation and missed assignments.

Bench them? Yes but who and for how long. Hood has been benched in favor of Heyward. worilds was basically benched for Jones in camp and Jones poor performance allowed worilds back. Clark is still one of the most stable defensive players we have but he is aging/slowing and shark is getting valuable snaps but we just can't hand over the reigns completely to him just yet.

Once the season is lost, officially, I hope we see what McLendon can do at DE and Fangupo can do at NT. I'd even let Gay play some SS and let Golden play the 3rd corner.

Cajun-

 

I also think the changes at key positions have affected our play this year. I think there are some growing pains for the young guys (Williams, McClendon, Jones, Allen) that are contributing to our less than usual defensive production (rushing yards allowed, big plays allowed). I especially think that Hampton's contributions were under-appreciated and losing Harrison on the right side was a big loss too.

That being said though, I am actually excited to see how this defense will perform with more experience under its belt. I think McClendon, Williams, and Jones have high ceilings...though I'm not so sure about Allen.

As has been said above, I don't think the problem lies with Lebeau, but with the players on the field--and for the most part I think the problem(s) is/are correctable.