Devin Bush...Updates

Sometimes I don't want to argue with you because of your avatar. I feel like I'm betraying Troy.

 

I mean, I do not come with the intention of arguing with anyone. Quite the opposite. That is not the reason I joined TheSteelersFans. My whole reasoning of joining was to discuss, share and educate myself as an NFL Fan but more imoortantly, a Steleers Fan. My debates and disagreements are simply based on my viewpoints and what is not correct; the "Minkah Mystery" being chief among them.



If I wanted to be combative, I will just create a Reddit Account and go the r/NFL Reddit instead.

 

I use the term "argue" loosely. "Argue" can be friendly banter, a lively debate, disagreement, or, well, arguing. Just easier to type "argue" than to go into that detail.

 

Fair enough!!

 

I see three Blast. Davis is worth looking at for a 4th or 5th.

 

There are reasons for that beyond his actual play. That is why we use multiple statistics and observation together. You did a little research, but not enough.

It is better to include both solo tackles and assists rather than just solos, especially on a good defense that swarms to the football like the Steelers do. You also went with an average per game, which misses the fact that Bush didn't play most of the second half against the Browns.

More importantly, you have to look at the number of plays being run against the defense this year. Remember, the Steelers were terrible in time of possession in 2019. Teams averaged 64.4 plays per game against the Steelers in 2019. That number is 58.4 this year. Teams also ran it a lot more, 26.6 per game in 2019, and 19.5 in 2020. That is six fewer rushes per game, which would explain why the tackles are going to be spread out more evenly and why more are being made by defensive backs. That is fewer opportunities for run stops by the inside linebackers, who are the primary tacklers if things are going right.

Speaking of things going right, and this one is only anecdotal, but it sure seems like the Steelers are blowing more running plays up in the backfield. Those types of plays are far more likely to be made by defensive linemen and outside linebackers than the inside guys, though the Steelers do run blitz enough to give opportunities to Bush and Williams. I would imagine Williams is the one more likely to blitz more given his weakness in coverage and his skill in blitzing.

Bush's play was at least as good so far this season as last. I think it was better. Of course, there is also one more problem comparing the two seasons, which is the small sample size. You are comparing 16 games to only five.

Of course, my concern regarding the loss of Bush isn't just the quality of his play so far. It is that the potential replacements can't do what he does. Spillane really doesn't seem like an every-down linebacker, which hurts if he is going to be the one calling the signals. Gilbert seems like he could do that some day, but clearly the coaching staff doesn't think he is ready to step into a significant role on defense. Maybe they don't like what he is doing at all.

If the team needs to replace Bush with a committee, that hurts the defense, and that seems like exactly what they are doing.

 

My response wasn't directed at you.
I qualified 'everyone' with '(used loosely)', meaning 'not everyone'.
I'm not even sure I know what a 'splash play' is, besides a turnover. I know I've always hated the phrase, and I assume Tomlin coined it. A lot of a players important responsibilities and duties aren't going to show up in the stats, like 'splash plays' do. D Bush is one of those players (as you already explained).
I never stated that 'everyone' turned on Minkah. I didn't want to qualify my use of 'everyone' with '(used loosely)' again, so I stated 'the fans'. I see now that using the term 'some fans' might have been more appropriate.
Minkah made a good play on a bad decision/poorly thrown ball and he is still my hero, because I never lost faith in him, dating back to his freshman year in college (my wife's family is from Alabama) .
Did I miss anything...

 

The worst part is even if they do make a deal, it will likely come too late to help during the two-game stretch against the Titans and Ravens. If they made a deal today, the player would not be eligible to join the team Sunday due to COVID protocols. I'm not sure he would be ready to help that much against the Ravens next week, either.

 

Well it won’t matter anyway TOMLIN likes Spillane

 

Bush has been consistently solid. You don't really miss that until it's gone. He racks up tackles which is needed. The injury sucks no doubt but one reason I'm not down on the season now is he wasn't making splash plays. That was other players. Not that Bush was suppose to but I think fans think oh 1st round pick he's going to do it all. Theoretically, we just need somebody who can be solid. Make needed tackles and good with communicating with the defense. A lot harder than it sounds. But apparently the Steelers were prepared for this after Shazier so lets see what Spillane does this weekend.

Colbert is in no rush to make a decision imo. He's going to use these next 2 games and probably playoff teams to judge the play and course of action. There's two ways this goes 1) Oh ****, Spillane isn't ready. I might need to trade a 2nd to get a quality replacement or 2) He can hang but I need to trade a 3rd or 4th and get a quality back-up.

 

Fansided's The Still Curtain page had us trading for Tremaine Edmunds!!!


https://stillcurtain.com/2020/10/20/4-linebackers-steelers-trade-devin-bush/5/



I would not mind having Tremaine Edmunds on the team. The issue is not just cost but fit. 6'5 as an ILB is REALLY pushing it!!

 

I am still going with the trade for Jarrad Davis. The team had him in for a Private Workout back then during the lead up to the 2017 NFL Draft. Not just that but both Kevin Colbert and Jerry Olsavsky met with Jared Davis at the 2017 University of Florida Pro Day as well.



Given the fact that his fifth year option has been declined, he makes for a nice one year rental player. The issue is still cost in terms of draft capital. Maybe a 5th?! Hopefully a 4th though.

 

Why would 6'-5" be an issue (assuming that's what 'pushing it' means)

 

Lambert was 6'4" and he finished his career playing in a 3-4.

 

Good points. But I was responding to your comments that stressed "tackles." If you hadn't been so specific, I would have been inclined to expand my research/answer. And I purposely used solo tackles for one main reason, his speed and range. You are right to point out his sideline to sideline ability. Well, that ability is more solo than combined. You can't herald his contribution for being faster and rangier than the other linemen and then use their combination stats to support his specific ability to get where they can't. And if I used combination tackles, it would raise the down linemen's numbers as well, possibly making his contribution even less impressive. I could go back and pull those numbers, but I just don't feel like it.

And there's no other stat to use than an average when he missed a portion of a game. Straight number of tackles would be skewed far more against him. And the Browns weren't running as much in the second half because of the score, and the fact that our weakness is through the air. So the average I quoted is a very fair assessment of where he stacks up against his peers.

Number of plays being up or down doesn't matter when you are comparing the average tackles across the board. If there are less plays, there are less opportunities for tackles. But the average doesn't care.

I could nit-pick more, but I'll leave with one last thought. "...inside linebackers, who are the primary tacklers if things are going right." What are you talking about? If things are going right? What does that even mean? If things are going right, the runner doesn't make it to the second level. The front four can be schemed to take up blocks and allow inside backers to read the running back and attack the gap, but if things go right, the down linemen shed the block and get to the back before the linebacker does. Many of our stops have been at the line or behind it. And it wasn't #55 doing most of that.

 

Your first point makes little sense. Speed affects his ability to get to the ball, so that includes assists as well as solo tackles.

The number of plays being down does matter when comparing total tackles per game. It also matters when comparing his numbers to those of the rest of the team. If teams throw the ball on a higher percentage of plays, that means more opportunities for tackles for the secondary and fewer for the linebackers.

Regarding the last paragraph, a 3-4 defense is designed for the linemen to disrupt the blocking so the linebackers can make the plays. That is what I meant. I assumed a Steelers fan would know that after watching the team play out of that base for so many years. I also accounted for more plays being made in the backfield by the defensive linemen so far this season as part of my post. Part of that is Alualu playing the best ball of his career. Part of it is having Tuitt back. That does actually take away tackling opportunities from Bush.

Tackles as a statistic shouldn't be ignored, but it shouldn't be looked at in a vacuum, either. You went from one extreme to the other on that one, which led to you missing the mark both times.

 

6'5 is an issue playing in a 3-4 because those Inside Linebackers need all the leverage they can acquire to win in the trenches. Average height for an Interior Lineman is 6'3. That does not seem all that advantageous at first. However, the advantage stems from the lack of space that Linebacker has to find a way to the ball carrier. Only way through is through that Lineman. How does this all correlate to height?! Whomever gets the leverage advantage first wins. More often than not this has been the case.



This is a major reason as to why Tremaine would not fit in our system. While he is plenty athletic, he is also plenty tall; great for a 4-3 Off Ball Linebacker given the amount of space he can use that speed and agility. In a 3-4 role, he does not have the natural leverage to shed blocks as quickly as possible to get there



Here is a better way to look at it. Vince Williams is 6'1. Right off the bat, he is the prototype ILB Size; 6'1 and 235lbs. He can not only gain the leverage advantage but also use his speed for better speed to power conversion. Another one is Devin White. Think Vince but with far superior coverage ability.



If going for a tall Linebacker is the choice for some; 6'4 is the limit. Anything beyond that is a bit too much.

 

There's the Formerscribe that we all know and loathe. You do make me laugh. You're such a hoot when someone makes a point and you so desperately want to sound intelligent that you repeat what they said and then tell them they should have known their original point.

Good post. Thanks for the laugh. Just remember that you can always use green font when you're blowing smoke. That way, when someone points out how dumb your comments are, you can just say you're being sarcastic.

 

6'4 is the limit though. You still have some advantage in terms of leverage but the margin of error is razor thin unless your are long limbed.

 

What if I told you Tremaine is actually 6'-4 1/2"...

 

Translation: I'm right and you know it, so you're going for the personal attack to cover it up. Thank you.

So you claim you didn't mean it when you realize you post or say something dumb? That seems dishonest to me, but you be you.

Why didn't you claim you were being sarcastic when you kept insisting the team needed Switzer?

 

Me thinks you doubled up on your meds again. You're making less sense than usual. And what a great feeling it must be to have @SteelerGlenn in your corner. You two make a great pair. You're like @Stone and I, just not as hot or intelligent.

 

He is without his cleats. With them, he is 6'5. Still too tall.

 

Scribe likes to be right & he usually is.
Guy does his homework before opening the piehole.