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Defense Defense Defense

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by steelersrule6, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member

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    I got it but I was "Yogging" at the time..
     
  2. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying we cant run two te sets or am I saying ebron isn't good. when you can get a sure thing at safety or nt, do you not think we need that more than a second te? a 4th or 5th round safety is a risk. that's why they are 4th and 5th round. not saying you cant get one there but I think there is a big gap between top 2 or 3 safties and rest of the pack. te not so much. I understand what you are saying but I think in a draft where we could take best available player you might be right. we just aint in that position I don't think
     
  3. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Oh really name the last TE to win Super Bowl MVP. The last 2 Super Bowls won by the Steelers WR's were the MVP. How many championships did the Patriots win with Gronk and Hernandez.
     
  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Are you really suggesting that Gronk doesn't help NE win? That if they aren't named SB MVP that it's useless to have one?

    By the way, Ben should have been the last SB MVP.
     
  5. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I know they can run 2 TE sets but a backup TE in 2014 isn't going to catch many passes next season, at pick #15 they need more production than that. They need to win now not wait until 2015, Ben has to throw to AB, Bell, Wheaton, Heath a WR at #15 would be more productive IMO. I'm not sure I would go offense at #15 anyway I want the best CB if he's still on the board.
     
  6. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member

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    I would always draft BPA unless it's at a position that you can't upgrade or the draftee won't see the field.. Drafting based on need alone is how you become the Raiders, Browns, Jaguars etc.. IMO
     
  7. TheSteelHurtin2188

    TheSteelHurtin2188 Well-Known Member

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    There is the NFL rule that if the offense make a substitution the the defense has to be afforded the opportunity to make one as well. If you get that play making second TE and Bell in the backfield the Steelers can switch from the two TE set to five wide and everything in between without make a single substitution. That causes a lot of problems for a DC. The ability to do this will pretty much force teams to stay in the nickel and while it's a good all around defense it also has the most weaknesses.
     
  8. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

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    true but only if you are drafting a player a few rounds early for need. I don't think if you draft a guy who is projected to go around pick 20 at 15 for need it is a problem.
     
  9. MorrisFoster

    MorrisFoster Well-Known Member

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    I respectfully disagree.

    -Roethisberger is 6/6 at making the playoffs with a top 5 defense. Roethlisberger is 0/4 at making the playoffs without a top 5 defense.

    It doesn't really matter what kind of "weapons" Ben has he will not make the playoffs let alone win Superbowls without a top defense.

    -8 of the top 10 defenses made the playoffs in 2013. 7 of the top 10 defenses made the playoffs in 2012.

    -6 of the top 10 rushing offenses made the playoffs in 2012 and 2013.

    Running and defense still wins games. If the Seahawks didn't show you that this year I'm not going to be able to convince you. ;) (Seahawks haven't had a 1000 yard receiver since 2007.)
     
  10. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Bens never had a top 5 offense either so I don't know how you make such a bold claim that he will not make the playoffs or win a SB without a top 5 defense.

    Anyway, 58 and I aren't advocating to forego defense, we simply want one more piece in place for the offense, maybe 2 if you count J Matthews but without knowing where we stand with Moyer and J Brown, that may not be necessary.
     
  11. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member

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    I agree with you that we need to upgrade on defense but I feel it's primarily the defensive backfield. That being said, I like the mid-round guys (as it stands now) as much as the guys predicted to go in the first couple of rounds.

    We don't disagree as much as you/I thought. We just have differing opinions on how to do it. Plus I believe we need to add a weapon or two on Offense. We ride with #7 IMO..
     
  12. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    we need to upgrade the defense , but since we need starters i think they will look at free agency too
     
  13. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member

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    Agreed.
    Can't spend a whole draft on defense.
     
  14. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Why not? The defense is the weakest part of the team. I would only use 2 or 3 picks on offense and the rest on defense.
     
  15. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member

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    That wouldn't be the whole draft now would it?
     
  16. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    A question for you Numbah 58 if Sammy Watkins was on the board at #15 would you still take Ebron?
     
  17. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member

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    No, I would take Watkins. Same with Jake Matthews.. There has to be some flexibility to the plan IMO.

    Having said that I think that there's very little chance that either are there at #15..
     
  18. MorrisFoster

    MorrisFoster Well-Known Member

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    You're right. Ben performs best in crucial situations and it would be great if he had a big target that could do the same. Steelers will likely wait to see what Munch can do with the OL and grab the best WR still available with pick #1 so I think you will bevery happy with the draft.
     
  19. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    looking at who was making a lot of the tackles last year, it was the DB's, which tells me the LB'ers are not up to snuff. they are supposed to be the heart and sole of this 3-4 defense. yes we need a safety and at least one cb, but we could use some help at LB too.

    as far as a big receiver needed for ben, I don't think he needs one, but if they want to give him a luxury pick I guess we could get one, but if you protect ben, he will find the receivers. 43 sacks won't cut it and we haven't had a 1,000 yard rusher in 3 seasons. sure bell may be the guy but that also takes blocking. we have nothing behind him if he goes down, but a good line could help a lot of those woes too. I'm not sold on a big wr or TE at 15. too many at those positions in this one. cb is pretty deep too.

    safety and OT and OG and LB are going to be harder to hit on in this draft. I know we have munch and joey now and all of them will turn into all pro's and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. that's how I'm looking at it anyway. :cool:
     
  20. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with you about Ben not needing a big WR, after watching Ben throw passes down the sideline to a 5'11 receiver like Sanders last season who kept dropping them. I want to see what Ben can do with a big WR in the redzone, also a 6'5 WR is a mismatch for any defense.
     
  21. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member

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    No faith in Munch mac? :hmmm:
     
  22. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Mac just wants a tackle the way you and I want Ebron :lolol:
     
  23. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member

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    He must've been a big slobber knocker in high school.. He loves talking OL ;)
     
  24. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    :lol:
     
  25. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I've never heard the statement it all starts at WR or TE. and yes I was, and in college and in coaching. if you look back I've had these discussions for years about our o-linemen and who I thought should be gone and always had someone arguing with me about how good max starks was and kemoeatu, and colon, and simmons, and............ none of which are here anymore. also about beachum and that finally has worked out pretty well too. i'll stick by my record so far as evaluating our linemen and their upside to make this line better some day before ben is 60. max was so good he was highly sought after, one year removed from being our savior.

    yes I have faith in munchak, but he still needs the horses to work with, as his former players have said. I don't think they are here at this time and munch won't be here forever. it takes a certain type of player to run this scheme and MM can't improve athleticism of an individual and all of a sudden make him something he's not naturally gifted at. slow feet and coordination is God given. wouldn't you rather see munch have a good lineman to work with and see how high his ceiling would be instead of trying to make one just serviceable? i'll bet ben would.

    I was also talking about strengthening our defense not only around the DB's but the real strength of our D the LB'ers. I'm saying it will be harder to draft a good o-lineman or LB over WR,CB or TE because these positions are not near as deep in this draft. if you want a good lineman or LB you better get one early, where as these other positions have talent well deep into the draft.:cool:
     

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