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Data on Queen

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Joel Buchsbaum, Oct 31, 2025 at 6:00 AM.

  1. Joel Buchsbaum

    Joel Buchsbaum Well-Known Member

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    I have been saying for games that Queen can't cover and missed too many tackles.

    Here is the data:

    Patrick Queen entering Week 9: 13 missed tackles (20.6%)
    Allowed 32 receptions allowed (43 targets). 374 receiving yards allowed 11.7 yards per reception 2 TDs allowed 0 INT (1 PBU)

    Opposing QB's have a 115.8 passer rating allowed

    42.7 PFF grade (76th of 80)
     
    Joel Buchsbaum, Oct 31, 2025 at 6:00 AM
    Joel Buchsbaum, Oct 31, 2025 at 6:00 AM
    #1
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  2. Thor

    Thor Staff Member Mod Team

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    PFF is dubious with a lot of their stats, IMO. PFR has Queen with a 13.6% missed tackle rate, which puts him 94th among qualifying defensive players and 23rd amongst LBs.

    But something that caught my eye was how many Steelers were ahead of him:

    11. Slay.........20.6%
    18. Herbig......20.0%
    30. Porter, Jr...17.6%
    32. Benton.....17.6%
    47. Holcomb...16.7%
    48. Sawyer.....16.7%
    75. Ramsey....14.3%
    94. Queen......13.6%

    Six in the top 50 leads the league. Only the Commanders came close to matching it, with five. It's one thing to have a couple of guys trending high, but the majority of our defense ranks inside the top 94 in MT%. Not good.
     
    Thor, Oct 31, 2025 at 7:20 AM
    Thor, Oct 31, 2025 at 7:20 AM
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  3. Animus

    Animus Well-Known Member

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    And unfortunately 4 of those are players that we'll be building around in the short and long-term.
     
    Animus, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:11 AM
    Animus, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:11 AM
    #3
  4. Tweezer

    Tweezer Well-Known Member

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    COACHING!!!
     
    Tweezer, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:22 AM
    Tweezer, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:22 AM
    #4
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  5. Joel Buchsbaum

    Joel Buchsbaum Well-Known Member

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    Queen's full stats at PFF.


    https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/patrick-queen/57941


    He is a Steeler weakness vs the pass , and below average tackler.


    Next year he counts as 17.1 million against the salary cap. Khan has overpaid Queen, Ramsay and Highsmith. While his trades are good, he often buy's high in free agency and players tend to underperform relative to thier cap #.


    https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers


    IMO, The Steelers should draft a MLB that can cover better in round three.
     
    Joel Buchsbaum, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:31 AM
    Joel Buchsbaum, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:31 AM
    #5
  6. Animus

    Animus Well-Known Member

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    If PQ doesn't step his game up the rest of the way, I look to offload him in the spring.
     
    Animus, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:35 AM
    Animus, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:35 AM
    #6
  7. NorthernBlitz

    NorthernBlitz Well-Known Member

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    It's insane how terrible we are at tackling this season.

    Makes no sense IMO.

    Maybe just all the older guys (particularly the old guys in the secondary) are a step slow and can't get in good position to tackle?

    But if so, the ILBs should be the opposite since both Queen and especially Wilson are faster than average (although Wilson has a good missed tackle rate of only 6.6% per PFR).

    In a case of "how the F is that true" Devin Bush also has a missed tackle rate of 6.6% per PFR.
     
    NorthernBlitz, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:45 AM
    NorthernBlitz, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:45 AM
    #7
  8. NorthernBlitz

    NorthernBlitz Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't hurt too much cap wise (only $3.8MM dead money).

    Personally, I'd try to let him play without the green dot before cutting him. Some guys just can't play well with that role. IIRC, that's what happened in Baltimore. They took the dot away from him and he got a lot better (although that was while playing next to Smith).
     
    NorthernBlitz, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:47 AM
    NorthernBlitz, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:47 AM
    #8
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  9. Karl

    Karl Well-Known Member

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    LB's are an issue in Pittsburgh.
    Queen is a streaky player. He has nice speed but doesn't have the complimentary LB's around him, that's what makes him tick.
    Hightower is shadow of the form he was playing before his contract.
    Holcomb is a slower LB and not good in coverage either.
    Wilson just isn't and run stopper but shows some coverage ability.
    Bruener is smallish.

    So, upgrade at inside LB looms ahead.
    Scott McCurley coaches the inside LB's. This is his first year here and I think he ok for what he has to work with.
    Denzel Martin is in his third year and I think he is ok too.
    I think it is a boring schema that really hurts them. I'm not impressed with Teryl Austin. (Some blame Tomlin but Austin is supposed to be HMFC of his unit)
    I'd like to see the Steelers grab a young innovative DC in the offseason.

    Watt (due to contract)
    Herbig
    Wilson (promising)
    Sawyer
    Are the only LB's I would keep.
     
    Karl, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:48 AM
    Karl, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:48 AM
    #9
  10. Steelersfan43

    Steelersfan43 Well-Known Member

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    Ravens fans were right about Queen...He is terrible and this is what he was before their trade for Roquan Smith in 2022

    Tomlin and Khan need to be fired and have a true rebuilding....It was not their only bad move
     
    Steelersfan43, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:58 AM
    Steelersfan43, Oct 31, 2025 at 8:58 AM
    #10
  11. Jammasterc

    Jammasterc Well-Known Member

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    The current roster is similar to me getting a shiny new tricycle now.

    It would have been a better gift years ago.

    These are names that were on a want list 5 years ago.
     
    Jammasterc, Oct 31, 2025 at 10:40 AM
    Jammasterc, Oct 31, 2025 at 10:40 AM
    #11
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Queen was a bust in Baltimore.

    He had one "decent" season playing next to Roquan.


    My hope was Payton Wilson's play would have put Queen on the bench permanently, but so far he hasn't stepped up either.
     
    Da Stellars, Oct 31, 2025 at 10:44 AM
    Da Stellars, Oct 31, 2025 at 10:44 AM
    #12
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Bubbahotep

    Bubbahotep Well-Known Member

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    For context, Queen is 7th among LB on passing snaps. He's been on the field for 300+ pass snaps.

    Coaching and scheme. It's the reason why Bush is doing good in CLE and Spillane in NE, both former Steelers
     
    Bubbahotep, Oct 31, 2025 at 11:19 AM
    Bubbahotep, Oct 31, 2025 at 11:19 AM
    #13
  14. Mashburn

    Mashburn Well-Known Member

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    We know queen can play.

    So to me this tells me how bad our defense coaching is.
     
    Mashburn, Oct 31, 2025 at 12:23 PM
    Mashburn, Oct 31, 2025 at 12:23 PM
    #14
  15. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    While I don't like Queen, I agree with this as well.

    Ever since Tomlin switched the D up from Lebeau's...our ILB's really haven't been much of a factor.

    Only unicorn speed freaks like Shazier can excel at ILB in this defense.
     
    Da Stellars, Oct 31, 2025 at 12:51 PM
    Da Stellars, Oct 31, 2025 at 12:51 PM
    #15
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. bleednblackngold

    bleednblackngold Well-Known Member

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    It's ok. They've solved that problem by being too far away from the ball carrier or receiver to even attempt a tackle. It's not a missed tackle if you're not there.
     
    bleednblackngold, Oct 31, 2025 at 1:18 PM
    bleednblackngold, Oct 31, 2025 at 1:18 PM
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  17. Thor

    Thor Staff Member Mod Team

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    I disagree on Queen insofar as his tackling is concerned - he's not meant to be a cover guy. The third rounder you want for coverage they already drafted - Payton Wilson last year. That's not to say they can't try to upgrade either, but IMO you try to establish one of your ILBs as better in coverage, the other better in stopping the run in a 3-4. Shazier developed into a rare blend of both after being known more for speed while struggling in traffic in college.

    As for Queen, while he's sitting 94th (PFR) right now, last year he finished with a 6.5% MT%, better than 300 qualifying defenders. That's above average, and he was a second team All Pro with a 9.2% in 2023. If anything, those numbers suggest his 13.6% thus far this season is an outlier.

    As far as the contracts, I think you're missing some of the details. Queen playing up to his $17M number this year and next is definitely a stretch, but last year he only counted $6M against while his valuation was around $12M (OTC). That was a win, and if they really want to get out of next season's $17M they can either extend or release him, saving either $11M (if after his RB triggers) or $13M (if before). The structure gives them an out if he were to drastically underperform.

    Similarly with Ramsey, Khan's restructure has him accounting for $5M, $17M, and $19M over the next three years. This year already his valuation is at $18M (OTC). But again, the structure leaves them options. If they cut/trade him before his option and roster bonus trigger this offseason they save $2M to the cap (with $15M in dead money). I think that unlikely, but do that in 2027 and they save $8M ($11M in dead money).

    So I don't think either of those contracts are bad. But it's going to be telling to see what they do with Highsmith this offseason. His valuation the past couple of years hovered around $8M ($4M thus far this year). That's not so bad for 2023/24's cap hits of $4M/$7M, but beginning with this season he jumps to $18M, $20M, and $21M - no way he produces to those numbers. I think they need to move on (even as a pre-June 1st cut they save $9M) and hand the keys over to Herbig/Sawyer, but it's going to be interesting to see if they do. Financials aside, they need a more dynamic presence over there, especially with Watt getting on in age.
     
    Thor, Oct 31, 2025 at 1:37 PM
    Thor, Oct 31, 2025 at 1:37 PM
    #17
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  18. Thor

    Thor Staff Member Mod Team

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    Broderick Jones showed good form sacking the QB and has a 0% MT% on the year.
     
    Thor, Oct 31, 2025 at 2:12 PM
    Thor, Oct 31, 2025 at 2:12 PM
    #18
  19. BigBensBigBong

    BigBensBigBong Well-Known Member

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    Don`t know what the other stats are, but as a casual observer, he seems to be in on almost every tackle. I see hustle in his play.
     
    BigBensBigBong, Oct 31, 2025 at 2:17 PM
    BigBensBigBong, Oct 31, 2025 at 2:17 PM
    #19

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