Crucify me if you wish, but I've changed my mind...

Right, Lizard. He clearly had possession of that ball the entire time it's in his hand. There's no way that's a fumble. Worst. Call. Ever.

And I agree with those who say the rule speaks to "control" more than it does "movement".

 

To me, that alone says a lot.

 

Perhaps I should just go read the rule then, because that's not the way I heard it explained. It's so damn difficult to find the specific rules on NFL.com though. Maybe I'll read it tomorrow.

If it just says that he has to have control, then I agree it was an incomplete pass. He did have some element of control I guess.

 

They ruled it an INT? I thought they ruled it a fumble. Are you sure about that?

 

What? No idea what you're talking about? I didn't write anything about an INT...

No, but seriously, I meant to write incomplete pass. It's been edited.

 

That was an incomplete pass for sure.

 

What? No idea what you're talking about? I didn't write anything about an INT...

No, but seriously, I meant to write incomplete pass. It's been edited.[/quote:qmdj1nms]
Oh lol! I was like "uhhhhh.... I thought I......read....that....." LOL!

 

I thought he clearly had possession of the ball going forward. No way it's a fumble. Horrible call.

 

He lost control once and once only on that play, and it wasn't until the very end of his throwing motion, when it squirted out. Phil Simms tried to say that Ben's pinkie moving constitutes losing control of the ball. Bull. He had control the whole time. It never wavered. The gif don't lie. Clearly a very bad call live. Just plain frightening call after review.

 

I wouldn't say "frightening" I think I would say "suspicious". I mean it's SO obvious. Also why didn't they call clipping at the goal line against Heath? Even Phil Simms saw that!

 

Yeah, Jim Nantz even called it live. They never do that and I think they aren't supposed to, but it was so freaking blatant it was impossible not to say something. And at that point in the play, there had to be 4 or 5 refs watching. Reminds me of the hold against Ryan Mundy that went uncalled week 1 on Thomas' touchdown. But this was even more blatant. How did they all miss it? That's 1 bad call and 3 suspiciously terrible calls resulting in 14 points for New York.

 

Yeah it's pretty infuriating actually. One lesson we need to take from this game is that we need to keep our foot on the throttle and score score score because there's more working against us than just the other team if you know what I mean. We just need to keep enough points on the board to compensate for this kind of stupidity. I don't wanna sound conspiratorial or anything. I mean it's really NOT a conspiracy. Conspiracies exist in darkness. This crap has been in plain sight all year ya know? We just need to realize that things aren't gonna go our way in terms of getting calls. I suppose you could say the best "iffy" call we've gotten all year was the Wallace catch in the Cincy game. But we've had THREE bad calls against us this year that DIRECTLY resulted in TD's! That's pretty amazing when you think about it.

 

speaking of EZ targets...

HINES

 

My take is in all reality it is a fumble when you look at it at its most basic level, but the way the rule is interpreted across the league it should NOT have been ruled a fumble.

Ben's arm went forward: that is all it takes for it to be an incomplete pass.

If Ben fumbled, then Brady fumbled in the Tuck rule game....

 

Check this out. I just noticed after the ball leaves his right hand, his left hand tries to grab it as if he wanted get the ball back. Makes me think he never intended to throw it and was a pump fake gone wrong.

 

The reality is 99.9% of the time that play HAS BEEN CALLED an incomplete pass and this BS about having control in the hand never comes up because it's immediately called an incomplete pass. When the refs failed to make the CORRECT call immediately they left themselves open to looking like total idiots and then they tried to justify their idiocy by explaining Ben's pinkie finger came off the ball while still in his had and therefore he didn't have control. It was all about trying to cover up their incompetence. The play should have never gone as far as it did. If they were paying attention to what was really going on they would have blown the ball dead as soon as it hit the ground hence no turnover, no score and no automatic review.

 

That's exactly it right there. Where it's happened that play has been consistently ruled an incomplete pass in every game up until yesterday. Good officiating is all about consistency and there was absolutely nothing consistent about that ruling which is why most of the team didn't even bother making a serious attempt to tackle the runner. They all assumed the play would be coming back. Bad assumption maybe but you can certainly understand it given how that situation has been called in the past.

 

That game had some of the worst calls from the boys in stripes that i've seen in a long time, and that includes the replacements refs!!!!! There should be a whole lot of shame weighing on those refs shoulders today. :darkness: