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Creating a new offense to beat the Chiefs

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SDOT, Jan 11, 2022 at 11:44 PM.

  1. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    I heard that Huntley is a better QB than Lamar Jackson so it's weird that the Ravens lost 6 games straight to end the season. Must have been Harbaugh and his analytics. :shrug:

    Staley is new. It's his first season as HC and he has already tied Tomlin for number of playoff wins over the last 5 seasons and Tomlin is a HOF coach so that's a pretty big deal.
     
  2. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Yeah well Lamar lost His last 2 He played, and 4 of the last 6 He played. I believe they knew He couldn't figure out the blitz except 2 run ....so they held Him out the rest of the games. Come on You would See Him walking around at practice then...magically He can't play every week .
    What good is it 2 have a Qb that if they can't run,and cut they can't play??? LoL. He's not a RB
     
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  3. CanadianSteel

    CanadianSteel Well-Known Member

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    @Steelersdepot
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    18h

    Ben Roethlisberger is 0-8 all-time in the playoffs when he attempts 37 or more passes in a game. He is 13-1 all-time when he attempts less than 37 passes in a playoff game
     
  4. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense. If You are throwing over 30 passes most of the time You are losing, and trying 2 keep up.
     
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  5. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I don't like running QBs either. I'm surprised he wasn't hurt sooner when he is listed as the same size as RGIII.

    Jackson is still better than Tyler "First Read" Huntley. I will die on that hill and then take it to my grave. :roflmao:
     
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  6. Steelrules

    Steelrules Well-Known Member

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    One of those top ten coach is currently unemployed and we beat three of those teams for a total of four wins.
     
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  7. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    That is true but from Tomlin's first playoff game to his last playoff game it has been pretty well the same with the exception of 2016 and 2017 when we actually had Bell in the Playoffs.

    In the first quarter the Steelers have wasted drives trying to run the ball when they just can't effectively.

    Ben is usually playing catch up by the end of the first half.

    35-10 @ half for Browns
    28-14 @ half for Jaguars 2017-18
    17-9 @ half for Patriots
    20-6 @ half for Broncos 2011-12
    21-10 @ half for GB
    21-7 @ half for Jax 2007-08

    The only lead at the half the Steelers had in a playoff loss under Tomlin was 10-9 vs. Manning's Broncos. So yeah, you're exactly right. Ben had to throw in those game because he was losing by two scores at the half.

    I think the running game being ineffective is a big part of the deficit in the first place though.
     
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  8. Steelrules

    Steelrules Well-Known Member

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    Jackson is definitely harder to defend due to his ability to break out a 40 yards run. Huntley is like Mayfield, Geno Smith, Tyrod Taylor. None excels at passing or running
     
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  9. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Who says the best coaches always have the best players?

    Anyways I know several people on this forum think I'm dumb but I'll offer my take on why the EDJ Sports method is flawed.

    This analytical study is basically hindsight for their EPI. Are the plays being called resulting in a good outcome and how good of an outcome?

    The teams with the best players are going to have the best outcomes. Tomlin is ranked 21st here. The top 5 are: Arians, McDermott, McCarthy, Belichick and Shanahan. That's not a bad list.

    IMO the Coach of the Year should be Mike Vrabel for securing the 1 seed with a lot of injuries. He is ranked 22nd best because of available personnel. How does the 22nd best coach overcome ridiculous injury reports to have home field advantage? That's a pretty good indicator that EDJ Sports had mathematically expressed hindsight, and considers whether the game is played on grass or turf but doesn't consider how good the players are which is a huge omission.

    Did the coach draft his players or did he inherit them? Things like that are ignored.

    ...

    It is interesting that two separate studies have Tomlin's regime as dead last on 4th down decisions. Running laterally against Jax and the FB dive fake punt come to mind. Weird.
     
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  10. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Sign of the times unfortunately. As a society we are so on edge that even topics like football can become bare knuckle brawls.
     
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  11. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Are you open to some light speculation? Remove the Browns from the AFC North and replace them with the Titans, give each team the others schedule and rerun the numbers to see what pops out. I think Vrabel did an amazing job once they lost the best player on the team as well but it should also be noted that their division was a two horse race.
     
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  12. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    I agree. That's why the below won't work. My gameplan is a mixture of short passes which Ben likes and running.

    With this o-line? That's a recipe for disaster. I can already see it now... Run, run, and 3rd and long. Going to waste possessions and not put up points. That's the gameplan if you want to put up 10 or 13 points and you trust your defense to hold the Chiefs all game which obviously isn't going to work.

    They come out 4 or 5 wide with short passes but Ben hasn't trusted his reads since that winning streak stopped and teams figured him out.

    Solution? Combination of the two above. Go 4 wide, Ben in shotgun, Najee next to him. He can block if need be. Ben reads the defense and if he doesn't like it just give it Najee and have him run for his life. It's basically turning Ben into Lamar or somebody via Najee.
     
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  13. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    Good luck on getting this guy to do anything that makes halfway sense. Tomlin lives rent free in his head so much to the point that he leaves no stone unturned or opportunity wasted to take a shot at him which includes finding useless information to downgrade his position and success as a coach.
     
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  14. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Do you think that might be Steelers culture in particular?

    I remember Maurkice Pouncey telling the media James Harrison destroyed his legacy by signing with the Pats (because Tomlin was playing games and lying about his upcoming playing time.)

    Another incident was Dupree robbing Bell's locker after he held out.

    Another incident was Ramon Foster of all people talking about Bell's money.

    So I think the Steelers as a culture are divisive.
     
  15. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    This is actually a good strategy. The Chiefs are giving up 4.8 yards per rush this season. Why not attack their run defense?

    It can keep Mahomes on the bench.

    The Steelers should have had a running game the last 3 seasons to support backup QBs and 38-39 year old Ben after elbow surgery. It isn't WardsWay's fault that Tomlin has failed to effectively use the easiest and most obvious strategy to help the QBs.

    I'm sure your idea will be ridiculed. "We should go empty and have 39 year old Ben win a shoot out with prime Mahomes!" rules the day. But it does give the Steelers the best chance to win. The short passing game didn't beat Mayfield last year and couldn't make the playoffs in 2018.

    :shrug:
     
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  16. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    The link I saw wasn't ESPN's football staff. By all means, show us that one.

    That said, you don't think ESPN would ever include meaningless clickbait? You're funny.
     
  17. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Both decided that Tomlin was the worst head coach on 4th downs. Are you 100% sure that is coincidental? Is it at all possible that Tomlin's game management is questionable?
     
  18. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Wrong thread
     
  19. Animus

    Animus Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I think we need to do what got us here. We have to really establish the run game and short passing game. It sucks saying that because for the most part our offense has been ineffective in doing that. The thing is, we need to sustain drives and keep Mahomes off the field. We really need to make it a 19-14 type game to give ourselves a chance to win. I really doubt our chances of winning if it becomes a track meet. Do what we've done all year, but execute better.
     
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  20. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    I'm unsure how this relates to what I wrote. My opinion is that civil discourse has suffered a pronounced downward trend in the last decade and ask such with the current world issues people are even more on edge and willing to argue to the point of shouting at the rain over their thoughts instead of discussing a topic and having a solid exchange of ideas. I listened to a 60 year old radio interview that the Youtube algorithm had suggested between J.R.R. Tolkien and a professor of English literature where the interviewer was asking about the allegorical connection between Christ and Tolkien's work on the Lord of the Rings. Now I'm not normally given to wanting to argue for no reason and especially with a radio interview from 1960 but I found myself wanting to argue with it. This is just where we are at and my hope is that one day soon it is back to where we can discuss topics and not have it be a fight
     
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  21. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    I think on the defensive side of the ball it will come down to can they practice enough to keep guys from watching Mahomes to see if he takes off and they forget their responsibility. They will also need to fight the urge to make the play on him as well.
     
  22. Steelrules

    Steelrules Well-Known Member

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    Fair point. But I can say that both Hairball and Staley would be in the playoffs this weekend had they not relied on their analytics so much. How many points did Staley threw in the toilet by going for it on 4th down in their game against Chiefs? And the TO in the Raiders game 40 seconds away from a playoff berth.

    Hairball with his 2-pts conversions. The most idiotic part was they ran the same play that failed against the Steelers in game against the Packers
     
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  23. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    There is a tremendous amount of territory between questionable game management and worst coach in the NFL. Where he ranks among the coaches in the league is certainly subjective, but dead last even behind guys who just lost their jobs this week? Anybody who lends a shred of credence to such clickbait nonsense is an idiot, a troll or both.
     
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  24. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I hear you. I think a lot of people can maintain civil discourse but once an argument starts it snowballs.

    Yeah I agree. The old timers took the easy FG for a reason. So many times you look back and the 4th down attempt that failed was the 3 points they needed to win a game.
     
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  25. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    If two separate studies come to the same conclusion I think they probably have some merit. I never once said Tomlin is the worst coach in the NFL. I think suggestions that Brian Flores would be better are ridiculous for example. I do think Tomlin had a talented roster over the last decade and did very little with it.

    I look at Peyton Manning's last 5 years and how competitive Rodgers and Brady are right now and the last decade was pretty dim for us.
     

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