Congrats Coach Tomlin

The reason why Tomlin has gone 15 years without a losing season is Ben. Tomlin will not go 15 years without a losing season when Ben leaves. He won’t be able to go 15 years without being fired

 

Okay, sure, but none of them started their careers with a HOF QB. They have to be out of the league for 5 years before they’re eligible for the Hall. And Kurt Warner played for a whole lot more years. Blame Martz for not being as good as Tomlin. Martz should’ve been able to win with D Vermeil’s players in his second year. Had he done that, he may have coached longer. What the Martz comparison does is destroy all the arguments that Tomlin was nothing more than a figure head, a smooth talker, a lucky SOB. You could make the same for Richie Petibon and Jim Caldwell. They had their QB, no reason not to be successful, except that there’s more to it.

 

Probably, because 30 years without a losing season seems damn near impossible.

 

I see your confusion

 

And raise him a delusional.

 

With due respect... Mike McCarthy had Aaron Rodgers since 2005 but got fired 13 years later; a losing record in 2018 to close his tenure with Green Bay no less. For that matter, Aaron Rodgers himself went 6-9-1 that season; by far his worst showing. Drew Brees and Sean Payton have had losing seasons themselves; first one in 2012 and three straight from 2014-2016. Heck, even Pete Carroll is currently on the hot seat after finishing his first losing season with Russell Wilson this year.




I have made this point before and, will do so again; no two coaching performances the same. For that matter, a varying degree of circumstances. Yes, Tomlin has had a HOF QB for all of his career... as did all of the aforementioned. I also understand that the expectation is to win Super Bowl's in Pittsburgh no less... but if it were only that easy. Here is a tweet below which I believe encapsulates the larger issue;











Finally, I do realize that Mike Tomlin inherited a team that was a Championship ready unit as well. None of the former three had that and had to develop their own. That said though and, truth be told, I still fail to see how the inheritance of a Championship team Tomlin's fault.... or at least, why inheriting one is as bad as others make it out to be. For that matter, isn't the job of a Head Coach fielding the most competitive roster possible for their team to have success?? Yes, Noll had to rebuild that roster from scratch as a whole but made competitive rosters throughout the 80s in spite of the end of the 70s dynasty. When he left, Cowher was given a Championship Caliber unit that saw him reach the Playoffs in his first six seasons.. a feat not accomplished since the great Paul Brown. Cowher did indeed have to rebuild the roster again but that is due in part to the Steelers main objective since the hiring of Chuck Noll; field the most competitive roster possible. Tomlin's early career success is different from Cowher's but similar as a whole; both were given top shelf rosters to compete and contend with. Both maxed out their usefulness of the rosters their predecessors gave them. That is fact for certain. However, continually acquiring, developing, maintaining and fielding competitive talent is what great coaches, rather, great Franchises, do. They have always; losing seasons or otherwise. There is a massive reason the Steelers have had only Three Coaches since the AFL/NFL Merger; sustained success through continual competitive rosters. For that matter, since the merger, the Steelers remain the only NFL Team to not place .500 or below in a decade; .507 being their worst in the 1980s. Art Rooney Sr already saw two generations worth of futility within the team's first two generations of existence. Even after his passing, the Rooney Family as a whole do not want that again.... EVER. I think it is safe to say that Chuck Noll made good on his promise. After accepting the Rooney's offer, Noll vowed;



"No one will laugh at this team ever again!"




In short? Tomlin has shortcomings for certain; some far more serious than others. That said, merely saying he is so successful just because he was given a great roster is quite short sighted and unfair; short sighted as it ignores the core values of how the Rooney's have operated under since the hiring of Chuck and unfair as it undermines and indirectly berates Cowher himself for putting the pieces needed for not just his team but the Franchise to remain successful not just during his final two years but whomever his successor may be. Tomlin's lack of Clock Management, mishandling of the whole A.B. Saga, lack of team discipline, occasional lack of readiness and usual failures when it comes to challenging are among very fair points to make for certain.




His success' being due in part to the Rooney's seeing their rosters built that way is not one of them.

 

You can’t write a 5 paragraph dissertation and start the last with “in short”


Also, somewhere in the middle of that I read a complaint that Tomlin only won one Super Bowl over a lengthy period while simultaneously praising McCarthy, Carroll, and Payton. Whom each have won ______ (fill in the blank) Super Bowl.

 

First off, why can't I finish a conclusion with "in short"? It is the ending point of a statement of points within the focus of discussion; whether or not Tomlin's wins hold much weight due in part to a roster he received. In addition, what is written above is not five paragraphs. Total is three.

For two, where exactly? What I stated is that while Tomlin is critiqued for winning a Super Bowl with a HOF QB, his contemporaries almost never are.. among some of those within the fandom anyways. For me, this has been quite intriguing for some time.

 

Sure cannot.


I also cannot ignore the 2014-2016 Sean Payton years either!!

 

IDK fam, I count 5 paragraphs. Though I was just trying to be funny.

Perhaps I lost your point and thought maybe in paragraph 2 you were ripping Tomlin. I’ll admit my confusion.

 

Ahh I see. Fair enough!!



Wish I could condense that point even further but sadly, not too many other ways around it! As I said before, I have made that very same point for a number of years. I also agree with some of the shortcomings that befall on Coach T as well.


Just not a fan of the whole "inheritance" one. Good Franchises are competitive for a couple seasons while great franchises are competitive for years and years; decades even. To paraphrase the great John Facenda;



"There are 31 Teams in Pro Football. Then.... there are the Pittsburgh Steelers."

 

Who specifically is stating he cannot be questioned?! Oh most certainly not me. For that matter, I have been far more critical within the past three years than any other point. Heck, 2017 is when I started; Shazier gone or otherwise!!



Regarding your second point, based on Cowhers Players... I assume you mean since the final piece in the man in my avatar retired? Fair point. Granted, losing Shazier did not help either in 2017; even you yourself would have to admit that. If not that, being high powered offense does not beget a Super Bowl I am afraid if we are discussing the 2015-2017 seasons. Takes more than that as I am certain you know. That said, does the 2020 Playoffs count as a failure? I fail to see how could it not? Granted, that was Pouncey's worst game ever as a Center but the entire team did not show up that day; Tomlin being at fault for that and something I did critique him on myself.



Finally, note how I stated coaches specifically from Tomlin's Era and not Bill Cowhers. Barry Switzer was a "Peter Principle" hire from the get go; something I believe that, again, me and you can agree on. For that matter, Sean Payton, Pete Carroll and Mike McCarthy (Packers anyway) are the furthest from such a hire like Switzer. For that matter, said statement I stated still holds true whether that is liked or otherwise; Mike Tomlin is essentially a piñata for some among Steelers Fans while Pete Carroll or even Sean Payton are often called superior choices; something I still do not quite understand myself.




In conclusion? I stand by what I said; Tomlin has a litany of shortcomings; issues even. Like Cowher, he maxed out with what he had; two Super Bowl appearances and one win to his credit being his result. At the very least, I will begin to concur more with the AR 2 detractors if some serious moves are not made; Keith Butler retiring and re-signing specific players not among them.

 

I understand the merit of the term and why it is used. I just do not agree overall with the phrase. The Rooney's do not want another period of losing like they experienced within their first two generations ever again. I understand I am repeating myself but that is the definitive truth without question; that level of suffering would truly be torture to anyone and much less them. To that end, the Rooney's have shown to do whatever is necessary to prevent that from happening ever again; 2019 being a highlight of this within the Tomlin Era. If anything, both Tomlin and Cowher can thank the likes of AR Sr. and Chuck Noll for that; AR Sr. continuing that level of consistency and Chuck Noll for orchestrating and showcasing how to not only find it but develop it consistently (Bill Nunn as well)j.



Now it is fair to question as to whether or not Tomlin can get the team over the hump again for certain. That much I cannot argue with. What is also true though is that Tomlin is doing all he can to get the team back into a competitive state. There are still pieces to add for sure but it is not nearly as periless as others are making it out to be. Again, Tomlin, Colbert and AR 2 all have failed to adequately prepare for life after Big Ben; something me and you agree on. What cannot happen is a repeat. AR 2 already saw this episode play out with Dan Marino long ago and he, along with Dan Rooney, waited an entire generation to rectify that mistake. I severally doubt they what to do so again...... or will they??




To conclude and, as before, if AR 2 does not make any serious moves, such as acquiring a good FA Class overall to start with ..... I cannot defend him anymore. AR 2 detractors can have it as far as I am concerned. I will be one less person to debate in his corner.

 

Martz won the Super Bowl as an OC. He lost the Super Bowl as a HC to Brady/Belichick on a FG as time expired.

Win or lose Dick Vermeil built that team. That was Vermeil's team- he added Warner, Faulk, Holt and Martz the same year and the offense exploded.

If Martz had won people would have rightfully called that Vermeil's team.

Martz's offenses do not work without great players. Look at the end of his OC career.

Seifert won with Walsh's players.

Switzer won with Jimmy Johnson's players.

Tomlin won with Cowher's players.

10 of 11 starters on defense were the same. The DC was the same. The HOF QB was the same.

 

So, if it’s easy, why don’t all the others win?

 

This is a bad faith argument. Why don't the best coaches win the Super Bowl every year with their own teams? Belichick hasn't won a Super Bowl in 80% of his seasons and he is the best coach of his era. How come he didn't win the Super Bowl in 21 seasons?

Why hasn't Tomlin won the Super Bowl in 93% of his seasons? How come Tomlin won 5 playoff games in his first 4 years but 3 in his last 11? Is he getting worse with experience?

 

For the Steeler fans I know, high expectations have nothing to do with Tom Brady. We grew up understanding that pretty good isn't good enough for the Steelers.

 

Who are all of these Tomlin defenders and apologists I keep seeing referenced. As best I can tell, there are about 2. There are a boat load of members who find fault with everything Tomlin does and keep making the same inane posts. It appears if one recognizes any of his accomplishments, and he has enough to get into the HOF potentially, you classified an apologist? Most of the people, myself included, who recognize his accomplishments, also recognize his shortcomings, and want change.

But some people just aren’t very intelligent and can’t recognize all of the parts.

Some people just aren’t very intelligent in general.

 

The comment was meant to demonstrate the absurdity by being absurd. Everyone doesn’t win because there’s a lot that goes into being successful. Almost daily, someone rehashes the argument that Tomlin won with Cowher’s players. Timmons, Woodley, and Holmes all played key roles in SB43. Without their efforts, they don’t win. Without Tomlin, they don’t win. The bad faith argument is that Tomlin is just a figure head.

But like jeh1856 said above, you can acknowledge Tomlin as a good coach and simultaneously acknowledge there are areas for improvement.

 

Holmes was drafted 2006. Cowher player.

No one is saying "Cowher won two Super Bowls and Tomlin didn't win any." Tomlin was the Head Coach when the Steelers won the Superbowl. We acknowledge that. Tomlin also won with Cowher's defense. We accept that.

...

God forbid the Steelers win a Super Bowl within two years of a new HC taking over from Tomlin... wouldn't that be winning with Tomlin's players?

Which HC could come in to this current roster and win a Super Bowl within 2 years?

 

Never stated that high expectations came from one player. What me and Mike both agree on is the amount of times a team is supposed to reach the Championship Game and much less the Super Bowl. That was the point being made.

 

This kind of comment is what makes Tomlin's critics dig in.

When Tomlin quits making the same mistakes then fans will stop pointing them out.

Tomlin didn't have any problem firing Bruce Arians or Dick Lebeau. Why should winning a Super Bowl make Tomlin invincible? How about we as Tomlin's critics sing his praises after he is shown the door like he showed Arians 10 years ago. Arians didn't get the benefit of the doubt after winning a Super Bowl but 10 years later, 2x Coach of the Year later, another Super Bowl win later we can see the problem wasn't Arians.

The defensive players Lebeau had in 2014 when he had the 18th best defense were worse than this year.

Cam Thomas - McLendon - Heyward

Worilds - Timmons - Spence - Moats

Gay - Polamalu - Mitchell - McCain

Antwon Blake as the NCB

Fired. One of the best coaches in NFL history out the door.

What are the chances Tomlin fires himself for having the 22nd best defense? This is the worst Steelers defense in 33 years. Fans should respond with compliments?

...

I've been off Steelers message boards for 4 years. I am only back because this is the end of the Tomlin era. I wanted Tomlin fired after 2011 because of the state of the OL (sound familiar), poor special teams, lack of a run game and inability to defend the middle of the field. To this day the Steelers are still poor in these areas.

In 2011 I was told I was an idiot and you can't just fire a Super Bowl coach. It was people like you who called Tomlin's critics dumb then who call us dumb now. You were wrong though not us. No one would be criticizing Tomlin if he got the axe instead when he scapegoated Arians and Lebeau and Haley and Fichtner.

...

Tomlin is a very good talent evaluator. He is very handsome and he looks like he smells nice. There I complimented him.

 

Thank you for this rambling rant

You made my point