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Comparing Mason Rudolph to Ben

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by niterider, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    Mason:

    • Games Started: 6
    • Yards Completed: 1,330
    • Completion %: 64.5%
    • Yards Avg: 6.6
    • Touchdowns/Int: 11/4
    • QB RATING: 93
    Ben (at this point in 2004:

    • Games Started: 6
    • Yards Completed: 1,316
    • Completion %: 69.0%
    • Yards Avg: 8.5
    • Touchdowns/Int: 11/5
    • QB RATING: 103.8

    I had a hard time researching drops. This site has current drops for team this year at 8 which doesn't sound right and probably doesn't account for passes that could have been caught but were not ideal passes.
    http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

    I couldn't find any dropped statistics for 2004.

    Why this matters? I recall Hines Ward when asked about his rookie QB's play: (I'm paraphrasing) "He just has to get the ball close to us and we'll make sure we come down with it."
     
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  2. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Really do appreciate the work done here OP. That said, I do have some critques I would like to bring up. They are below.



    Hines Ward was far more sure handed than JuJu is currently as Hines had the superior experience. For that matter, most Receivers from that 2004 Team were better not just from a talent perspective but also an experience perspective. Mason really does not have any of that.



    This is also not accouting for the fact that Mason does not have a HOF Running Back either. In addition, as you said, drops have been killing Mason's statline. That is more so on the Receivers than on him even though his anticipation throws were not spot on when he got in.



    Give Mason some time as he is progressing better and better each week. I am sure he will get better in time the same. I believe that, among those aforementioned steps I spoke of in another thread, yesterday's game against Los Angeles were bigger steps in the right direction than in weeks past.



    Hopefully the game against Cleveland will be his breakout game. Denzel Ward is not Jalen Ramsey talent wise. For that matter, beyond Myles Garrett and Joe Schobert, I do not see too many other Browns defenders that worry me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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  3. steel_ben7

    steel_ben7 Well-Known Member

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    Rudolph has been pretty good and I like his poise and his ability to shake off bad plays. He has some improvements to work on for sure but so far through 6 games played he has been more good then bad. Aside from the safeties the last two games Rudolph has made some big time throws late in games and converted some big time 3rd downs and he is not making the big mistake or turning the ball over in key moments.
     
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  4. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    Ben was a rookie. Mason has had 2 camps, 2 pre seasons, and 6 starts. Frankly I was expecting more then what we've seen.

    Statistically not a huge difference. The glaring difference was Ben's ability to make things happen when the plays broke down or when the game was on the line. He had a competitive motor that kind of separated Ben from the avg QB. You could see it right away. It often wasn't pretty but he was a gamer. Ben also usually did not make his reads quickly but when the game was on the line he let his competitive edge take over. That "it" that good and great QB's have.. Ben had it on day 1.

    Good Qb's usually show that they have something special fairly quickly. You saw it in Ben right away even though he struggled to run the offense, often made stupid mistakes, maybe he had some bad games, but he helped the team win. I don't see it in Mason. I'm waiting for a flash of something but right now it's usually " - thank goodness it wasn't picked" Or "wow he actually completed a pass 10 yards down field. " For a guy who's dumping the ball off on most plays he sure takes a lot of hits. Maybe the playbook could be better? He still has had plenty or opportunities to make a big play. He's not made many .

    Hopefully something clicks soon but I'm not confident Mason is anything special. He's got the arm just not convinced he has the head. Hope I'm wrong because we don't have the draft picks to address it next season.
     
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  5. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

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    I did notice he threw down field more this game, also he took more hits then i have seen him take in the past... maybe its starting to come together for him.... But its obvious the coaches dont wanna put the game in his hands.. That pass he completed on 4th down deep in there own teraitory.. the expression on Tomlins face tells it all ...lol
     
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  6. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what games you guys watched, but the 1st 6 quarters of the season with Roethlisberger at QB were a total train wreck on offense. Maybe he was hurt the whole time? Who knows. I don't think he's gonna be the same QB in 2020 that he was from 2014-2018. He'll be 38 with a gimpy elbow on his throwing arm. Not good.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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  7. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    To add to the OP's stats.

    As per PFF:

    JuJu has had 2 drops, 3 Int
    DJ has had 2 drops
    Washington has had 2 drops, 2 Int and 1 fumble.
    Concrief had 2 drops and 1 interception.

    So yes, thats even worse than I thought, I figured as fans we were making it out to be worse than it is but no, those turnovers are pretty freaking terrible. They aren't doing Mason any favors.
     
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  8. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    It maybe an inclement game Thursday, I am
    anxious to see how MR performs under these conditions.
    Crossing my fingers.
     
  9. niterider

    niterider Well-Known Member

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    I guess I wasn't clear in my post. We had some big time playmakers in '04. As long as you threw it in the vicinity of a Steeler's jersey, they were coming down with the ball. Hines confirms that in his quote. We're not seeing that this year, at least not consistently. If our guys start making those tough catches and doesn't tip it over to the other team, we would be talking about how much of a baller MR is.
     
  10. OX1947

    OX1947 Well-Known Member

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    Big Ben had hall of famers all over the place and SB MVPs and DOPYs. Mason has zero impact players on offense. Plus, Big Ben is 3 inches taller, the size of a building and can throw the ball 70 yards.
     
  11. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    As you said, big time playmakers make big time plays. It is within their earned title. Mason does not have that.


    Again, context has to be factored here. We really do not know what Mason can do with one because we do not have one at present. More importantly, nevermind being big time playmakers either.



    That corps was very experienced; something this corps simply is not. None of these players are Receivers who have been in the NFL for four years or more. Donte was supposed to be that stabilizing force but was unable to.
     
  12. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Hm?!


    Both are 6'5.
     
  13. Hanratty#5

    Hanratty#5 Well-Known Member

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    Also the TE's, McDonald in particular, have a few drops this season and I'm sure the backs have dropped a pass or two.
     
  14. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    You find out how good a QB is when your down in the 4th quarter at the end of the game and you need to drive to win a game.

    I want to see how Rudolph handles that. There will be a time when that happens.

    The great ones can do that.
     
  15. Hanratty#5

    Hanratty#5 Well-Known Member

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    Ben is much stronger than Rudolph. Defenders would have a clear shot at Ben and he would just shrug them off and fire the ball downfield for a completion. Getting to Ben was only half the battle, actually taking him to the ground was a lot harder.
     
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  16. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Well, Ben was 245. Mason is only 235. That said, I do like Mason's Pocket Presence and Pocket Poise more than I did Ben's in his Rookie year. Then again, having reliable targets means you don't have to always have to have the best of either.


    This is not accounting he had a HOF Running Back.
     
  17. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Agreed. 4th Quarter Comebacks do tell some of the story. However, that is not the entirety as I am sure you know.


    The great ones can also sustain drives to lead their team to score points; preventing 4th Quarter Comebacks when done in succession all together. Mason has done that against both Indy and Los Angeles. The only reason why Mason was unable to put the game away for good in either is due to Randy's inexplicable play calling.


    Back to back games with Play Action near your own End Zone?!?! Against two great pass rushers in Justin Houston and Aaron Donald?!?! I wonder what will happen!!?!



    :facepalm:
     
  18. Pappy928

    Pappy928 Well-Known Member

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    Agree and if you look at tape the past couple years Ben has been inconsistent. Love Ben, but his arm is past prime. I find myself getting annoyed by people that moan and complain over Masons ability - especially holding the ball too long. Ben was holding the ball spokesman!

    People were complaining about the safety. Have these people reviewed that play? He had zero time. Donald was on him so quick he had no opportunity to even dump off. In his own words, he had to quickly determine whether to eat it or give up a touchdown. The play was blown up and he made the right call.
     
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  19. Jball

    Jball Well-Known Member

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    Are we pretending now?

    First off, Ben was way more talented. Arm and movement comparisons would be horribly embarrassing for Mason. Horribly embarrassing. Ben also came out as a junior from from a really small school. MR came as a senior from a major conference. He played with and against way more talented players.

    And Ben started as a rookie. He didn't have the benefit to sit and learn for a year and have two training camps.

    Why all the effort into proving that MR is just as good as BR? What are you gaining with this comparison? Do you think he's sexy? That's cool if you want his body, I don't judge.

    What the hell are we talking about here? Rudolf is Canton bound because his 2nd year numbers at age 24 are similar to Ben's rookie numbers at 22? This means what?

    Is he as bad as others, including me, are claiming? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a lot of the criticism for him comes from frustration with this offense that he's leading. I can tell you for me personally, his shortcomings are obvious and, IMO, they're shortcomings that he'll never overcome because you don't suddenly grow an arm and legs at age 25.

    He does have value though. Having a solid backup is very important. But, please lets stop pretending this guy has the talent to be a top notch QB. And if he can't be one of the best, then lets keep looking.

    I know that we're stuck with him right now and I'll root for him obviously but I'm not going to pretend, for whatever reason, that he's a HOFamer waiting to happen.
     
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  20. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    Comparing is pointless. It literally shows nothing.

    BR started in a different era. Football was literally completed different back then.
    BR had a very strong running game to work with, MR has no running game.
    BR had a completely different coach with a different system.
    BR and MR have played against completely different teams.

    If you think I'm trying to claim that MR is as good or better than BR was, then go back to the top of my post and read my first sentence. That's my only point, nothing else.
     
  21. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    The first 6 quarters this season from Ben means nothing, he most likely was dealing with elbow pain. It doesn't mean he won't be effective in 2020.
     
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  22. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Thats funny, he looks like a little boy next to Ben :lolol:
     
  23. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    At the time we didn't have any SB MVP's. Not sure anyone was a HOF until Ben showed up and we won a SB. Ben won 13 games his rookie season in 2004. 2003 the steelers were 6-10 and I'm guessing not many people were saying that team was full of playmakers and HOF'ers when Ben made his first start. lol The original post was comparing Ben and Mason so ... while the stats are similar the players are not. I'm hoping Mason ends up having a long career in the NFL... I just don't see it right now. He lacks that certain quality you see in most good QB's.
     
  24. Tiggs99

    Tiggs99 Well-Known Member

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    Ben was a better athlete and had a stronger arm. Ben also had better surrounding cast around him with Hines Ward and Bertie. Mason has a quicker release and better recognition of the defense. A lot of times Ben extended plays with his athleticism and played sandlot football. You are not going to get that with Rudolph, which has his positives and negatives. Mason has potential to be Tom Brady if he had Belichek, but he has Fichtner and Tomlin.
     
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  25. Steelers304

    Steelers304 Well-Known Member

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    Lmao you cant compare the two. You guys are saying Ben had elite defense, but you're also saying this current defense is elite and the best since those Superbowl defenses. Ben had super good post season runs very early in his career. league is soft now compared to when Ben is in there playing against ray Lewis twice a year and a loaded ravens teams as well as a Bengals team that were borderline contenders. Bens rookie year they're 15-1. Mason didn't even beat out Dobbs his rookie year. Ben was a freaking gamer. A top 10 QB of all time. Dude got cotchery double digit TDs of all people , Ben goes into Denver a few years back no leveon , no AB and would have won but they had Fitzgerald and I think toddman at RB and a crucial fumble killed it. Juju killed our chances last year too with Ben at the helm so Mason is getting the same treatment in that respect. Mason may claim to be a film junkie, but I'll take the gamer that is clutch and can make every throw in the book. Ben had terrible o lines for a 2 thirds of his career by the way. Mason is a Ford taurus with an exhaust leak, Ben is a Ferrari.
     

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