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Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by NY STEELERFAN, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    But a lot of teams do, 2 entire years of draft picks whiffs or are on other teams. Can't miss

    on the #1 & #2 or you won't be in the league very long. For the most part KC & MT do OK,

    But as others have said, there have also been a lot of head scratchers picks.
     
  2. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    Don't tell those truths on Colbert! NY will get after your @ss if you do. LOL. :cool:
     
  3. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    We have multiple players from the 2007 draft on the roster. Most teams do not have players from their 2008 draft on their roster this year. I don't have statistics on league wide 1st and 2nd round draft pick success, so I can't accurately comment on that. I'd imagine they're more successful in the late rounds than most teams are.

    Some criticisms are warranted, but many aren't.
     
  4. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    where to start?

    i'm sure those o-linemen were in his plans the whole time. if it wasn't for an injury beachum would never have even seen the field. nor would AV, who was a DE. foster was a backup, who again by injury got a shot. if it wasn't for munchak, this group would not be where they are. by the way it's been well publicized that the late round picks are mostly on the scouts. bruener was responsible for beachum, i saw this in writing that year. as i said finally we took care of the line because of munch and after way too many years of our franchise qb being beat to death.

    yes we have 2 stud d-linemen. one a 1st and 1 a 2nd round pick. that's a no brainer. they played nearly every snap last year because of cam thomas as the backup. it's well written about no depth behind them.

    yes we have a 1st round pick thats 23. he's sat out more than he's played. we had depth behind him but we lost that. williams isn't in the same galaxy as a backup, when he has to start. timmons has a lot of miles on him. fort will probably be alright as a backup. not a real concern at this spot until timmons and shazier are not on the field for us, then it will be a huge dropoff.

    by the way, where did i use the we don't have studs at every position approach? of course we don't and anyone that knows me , knows i'm big on overachieving futures picks, late rounders and UDFA's. teams are made up of a lot of these guys.

    as for not liking KC, i never said that. i have always said i don't think KC with MT are near as good as cowher and KC at picking players. early round players are pretty easy to pick. AB has overachieved way more than anyone ever would have imagined, and i'm on record as telling people that we would like this kid before he even saw the field. bryant was one of my picks the year we got him. i've always been a beachum backer. i have been an AV backer too. same as gay back when everyone wanted him gone. you can't say neglect of certain area's of the team haven't had an effect. continued neglect at certain positions has hurt us and may continue to. i'm not sure how people can't find some fault with that. leaving certain positions unaccounted for when clearly the starters are aging is not a good team building plan, when your franchise qb is aging quickly. we have seen way too much of this with KC and MT and it's bit us in the behind alot. :cool:
     
  5. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Ok mac... I love our fun discussions and debates on the draft, but when you start talking about all of the late rounders and undrafted players you've been "right" about, I have to call you on it. You heap praise on uncounted late round prospects every year, every late round pick and UDFA we pick up and pretty much every practice squad and camp player that walks through the door. I still have :facepalm: memories of our debates a few years ago when you were certain that Vic So'oto and some other guy I can't even remember were going to the saviors of our pass rush :cool:. If you mention a hundred names every year, it makes it easy to look back and say "I was right about that guy."

    Anyway, keep it coming :thumbs_up:. I love the discussions, but I can't just let you pat yourself on the back for your guruness without saying something ;)
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  6. turtle

    turtle

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    I used to think Ozzie Newsome killed Kevin Colbert in drafting prowess, but then I looked back at the Baltimore drafts and the "success" (which in general needs to be defined for comparison) rates are pretty similar. They're 2013 draft was pretty bad as was the first two picks in 2010 to give some examples.

    And I'm sure if you compared team to team across the NFL, KC and the Steelers would be at the top half. Have there been lows, sure, as do most teams. The "we can protect our QB with weapons instead of lineman" draft strategy was a questionable one and they seemed to realize their mistake and correct it. This offseason it seems they are changing their view on taking DBs high. But who's to say if Fuller didn't go to the Bears or Johnson to the Texans then they would have gotten a CB those two years. They would also be doing the team a disservice if they reached for one.

    Free agency can be the drafts best friend when coming to the rescue in filling holes. But some of the CBs asking prices have been way more than they are comfortable in paying. Are they going to pay top dollar to a press corner when they play off? Last year was clearly evident the pass coverage needs addressed, and this offseason it seems like they are trying to do that.

    Golson being injured just sucks tenfold, because he is still a question mark as any rookie this year will be. Dante Fowler got hurt for the Jags last year and never played. Same with Clowney his rookie year. Can't judge the player until he plays imo.
     
  7. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    This is total nonsense. mid/late rounders thru UDFA are drafted to be developed, and to be ready to step in when injuries present that opportunity. Trying to use those realities to downplay the success of the front office. If you are attempting to come up with a factor to take credit away from the top of the front office, it merely shows that you have a biased agenda.

    We have two studs. Thank your GM.

    2 things:
    1. It's a huge drop off BECAUSE we have two very good ILBs
    2. Name 1 team that has the quality of Timmons/Shazier at the starting positions, and something significantly better than Vince backing them up?

    Bias, Agenda is consistent


    I think there is enough data to make a factual argument about this. What would you like the parameters to be?


    You think this... because Colbert has done such a good job over the years. It's not actually true when you look league wide.


    15 picks in the last 10 years on DBs, isn't neglect. 2 of our biggest UFA signings of the last 10 years at the DB position isn't neglect.

    Is the backend a problem? Yes... But it hasn't been neglected. There's a difference.
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  8. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    Try top 5-10
     
  9. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Colbert and Tomlin are at the West Va pro day today. Hopefully we get word that they spent time with Karl Joseph.
     
  10. Dean

    Dean Well-Known Member

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    Turtle, I hear ya. But I look at the past Super Bowl winners and see who they have as their lead cornerbacks and it speaks for itself doesn't it? A true # 1 cornerback has the measurables AND can cover. I know I may be sounding greedy to some of you guys but why not? Considering our history and all the great cornerbacks that we've had, I want a guy who fits in their mold.

    Golson has the measurables to be a great slot corner. And I hope he pans out there too. But I don't want to see him on the flanks.
     
  11. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Interesting hearing you say this. A great slot corner is nothing to sneeze at in this era of nickel or dime defenses 70% of the time. Having a guy who matches up with the Edelmans and Austins of the world is important. With very limited (and expensive) exceptions, the bigger corners tend to have trouble chasing those smaller, quicker slot receivers all over the field.
     
  12. turtle

    turtle

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    you're a steelers fan, we always want the best possible at the position. Draft time is always about finding the prospect who checks all the boxes. A Jalen Ramsey type player. Unfortunately they don't come along very often and you have to get a guy who doesn't check one or two of those boxes. More often than not, you bring the guy in and trust in your staff to bring the other parts up to those high levels.
     
  13. turtle

    turtle

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    Out of curiosity, what do you think are Colberts weaknesses as a GM?

    You seem to readily accuse others of having a bias, but you defend Colbert and Tomlin like they've never made a mistake. People wouldn't be on this forum, in the offseason no less, if they didn't respect the team. Just because posters don't blindly support every move the team makes doesn't mean they have an agenda. Everyone sees the world differently. Conversely, I don't think someone who bashes every move has a rational argument either.
     
  14. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Colbert has a weakness as a GM. He's as successful in turning out talent in the draft as any GM out there, and our cap management is among the best in the league (and the one time we had to guy through a cap deconstruction/roster rebuild, he accompliashed it in less than 2 seasons. I think 15 years of success highlight that fact. I can go in to the details about each move/pick and debate why I liked/disliked that move, agree/disagreed with a particular direction, contract, etc. but I don't correlate those things to a particular weakness.

    I do think Bias exists. I think a large portion of our fan base expects the Super Bowl every year, and can't explain or understand when we don't win it. And it's simply easier to say "Tomlin/Colbert's fault".

    I don't think Colbert has a weakness because Cortez developed a degenerative knee issue or because Keenan became a free agent at the peak of our "contender cap". These are just realities of the NFL, not reflections on a GM.
     
  15. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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  16. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    Dreams do come true.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    My mock is coming together nicely :)
     
  18. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    I wouldn't be disappointed. ;+)
     
  19. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    Here's Joseph prepping for the bench.

     
  20. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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    Tomlin and Saxon doing their thing.

     
  21. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    It won't happen in our message board mock, because some selfish jerk already too him... Oh wait, that was me :rawk:
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 2
  22. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Thats a good point, that 2008 draft was bad for everyone.

    In general though, average NFL career is 4-6 years, 9 years for 1st round picks. 2008 is a long time ago.
     
  23. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    and thats your opinion. :cool:
     
  24. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    yes, an informed, objective, and logical one.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

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