Cobi Hamilton

The WR competition for the #5 and #6 spots should be a dispassionate debate about utility.

Those depth spots need to account for multiple roles. The question is how many spots/formations/roles can you backup on offense AND special teams.

DHB will always start with an inside track in this conversation as he is experienced backing up/playing all WR roles on offense, as well as multiple gunner/coverage roles on special teams. So, you then need to factor in potential/long term. Nobody competing for DHBs spot currently offers a similar amount of versatility. Cobi has primarily played the Flanker/Bryant role. Hunter was also brought in to play that role/depth. Sammie Coates has also primarily played the Flanker/Bryant role

I look at the competition like this:

DHB: Backup All WR spots + Elite Special Teams
- DHB needs to be beaten out of a Special Teams spot, while the team also gets comfortable with someone else backing up ABs routes.

Coates: Backup 1 WR spot + Special Teams + Upside
- Coates path to the roster starts with health. He then needs to show that his fingers arent a long term issue. He then needs to beat out multiple guys for a special teams role. And then he'd cement his spot if he could show he could play ABs routes.

Cobi: Backup 1 WR Spot + Special Teams
Cobi's spot is really through Coates injury status. He similarly needs to lock down a special teams spot and prove his position versatile on offense.

Hunter: Backup 1 WR Spot + Prime Age Vet Experience + Bryant Insurance
Hunter's path is through his skill set. Plain and Simple. Hunter can replace Bryant in the lineup. He can dominate vertically. He doesn't play special teams, so he'd likely be a 6th WR scratch, on some/many Sundays. DBs who are pushing for gunner/special teams spots will help Hunter's case.

If we had to start Week 1 without Bryant... who would you want running those routes? I think everyone would say Hunter. Given how big that role is in our offense... it's worth considering keeping Hunter for that sole purpose.

Mike Hilton also plays a big role in this competition. If he not only earns a 53 roster spot, but also a regular game day helmet as the 4th CB, Gunner/Special Teams starter... that would have an impact on the battle above

Rogers vs Ayers is a separate competition.

AB - Lock
Bryant - Lock
JuJu - Lock
1 Spot: Eli vs Ayers - Strong edge to Rogers
2 Spots: DHB v Coates v Hamilton v Hunter - Edge to DHB (veteran, proven within role) and Hunter (Signed for a purpose)

 

Nice analysis.

 

Not even as one of the Teams in the NFL who experiment with this on the daily is the best Team in the NFL eight now .....Not so sure why you can't forecast into the future ? Actually I can ...You have probably never Coached or experienced the shift from the ground and pound to Spread ....I seen it first hand and the simple fact of the matter is HS and College Teams from what would be great DB talent to the WR spot and when these guys reach the NFL level they tend to wash out or become role playing WR'S .....They miss their natural calling and as a Coach with a Team with major holes in that spot it is my job to find a way to fill those holes...

Put the time in and take guys with DB skills and move them to the true spot they should have always been...Our Team has cut 1 of those guys as well just so you know...So target that get ahead of the game ...Don't wait and be the last man standing at the party ...

 

PWP and RPO back at... a sure sign it's football season again. Huzzah!

 

Ab
Bryant
Ju ju
Rogers
Coates
Hunter

Hey-bay gives you nothing as a receiver and Coates did well on special teams last year. Hamilton did awesome and he could possibly replace Coates. Hope he shows out in this next preseason game. Ayers practice squad.

 

The WR group right now is AB, Bryant, JuJu, Rogers, Hunter, and DHB. It is the job of Ayers, Hamilton, and Coates to knock one of them off. What Hamilton did last game was nice, but it wasn't against starters so there is some reality associated with what he did in the game.

 

Every time I read this, I feel dirty.

 

He's been clicking with Hunter too, IIRC.

(And awesome disclaimer. )

 

Your ability to put a coherent sentence together surpasses your coaching ability.

Just because something has happened in isolation... doesn't mean you forecast it out as a new norm.

George Wilson converted from WR to S 10 years ago... the forecast has really taken off since then

I'm amazed the Patriots continue to trade for, draft, and sign big contract UFAs at corner and safety, seeing as they've unlocked the secret of converting WRs to DBs.... I mean they've invested so heavily in Safety, it's amazing they haven't just converted Malcolm Mitchell... i mean... duh
The Patriots have invested two first-round picks, three second-round picks and a third-rounder on safeties over the last decade.

You consistently attempt to validate yourself through this approach. It doesn't work.

This is where your evaluation falls on it's face. The reason that the league is NOT churning out NFL level talent by converting WRs to DBs, is that there are NOT a bunch of NFL caliber football players whose natural talent was ignored through College. Your hypothesis is a bunch of small school nonsense. Big programs, that produce the bulk of NFL talent... are recruiting top tier prospects, and developing them in their best spots. They aren't ignoring their natural talents like you propose.

And you know how we know this? Because there IS NOT A WAVE OF POSITION CONVERSIONS ACROSS THE NFL. There are only a small handful of players converted from offense to defense or vice versa. It is not going to change.

There's over 3,000 players in the NFL... you think because like... 3 converted to DB from WR, that there is some gold mind/trend. There's not. You simply read a Patriots story, and over reacted in comical fashion.

You're just wrong. And that's before we even get in to the utter nonsense that you began with ("making the conversion is all about mindset"), I mean... holy **** could you say something any stupider? 99% of WRs who make it to the NFL... have never dipped their hips in a backpedal. They've never had to make zone/man adjustments based on the formation/alignment across from them. They've never played through the pocket of a WR, and they've never had to read the body and eyes of a WR. But you, coach, think that the most important thing is their mindset??? Have you ever been around someone trying to stick to a 53 man roster? Let me illuminate you as to there mindset: "Hell yea, Im pumped, whatever you need coach".... the greatest mind set on earth can't change the absence of years of muscles memory development and years of playbook experience.

Have you considered the cost benefits as to the amount of time your position coach has to spend with said convert? If you'd ever been around a professional, you would know and understand this is a huge part of the consideration. Would you reduce your 1st and 2nd round CB and Safety's coach time to accommodate your pet WR to CB project who needs infinitely more hands on time to be taught (for THE FIRST GOD DAMN TIME EVER) how to properly transition his hips from backpedal to go/trail. And that needs to be repeated, Every GOD DAMN DAY.

It's the same reason the guy with a Bachelor's of Arts, almost never gets brought in to be the Director of Engineering. No one cares that he may have missed his calling. But you think we should bring him in, give him extra on the job attention, and convert him in to an Engineer? And to make the conversion....he just needs the right mindset, and... you know, Engineers are hard to find, so this is a smart business decision.

****ing stupidest **** ever....

 

When a young player first steps on the field they have done not one Football skill that has really been Coached ...The Coaches look at these kids talents and try to match it to a position ..They then start trying to teach said kid that position....And just like everything in life sometimes they are right and other times they are not ...

Moving to more spreads and more multiple sets forces Coaches to project more WR'S this leads to more guys being evaluated wrong from jump street ..After that these players help the Coaches win on the level they are playing...The reason being is they have more natural talent than some other players ....As the years pass and these players reach the College level they are still getting by on raw talent that has been honed mind you, but it doesn't change the fact that maybe just maybe they had a bad evaluation early in their Football life....

A good Coach should be able to see that and a lot do , but they choose production over projection..They have little to no desire to get said player into there best position so they may be better at the next level....

10 years from now at least 15 percent of all NFL DB'S will be converts ..Whether that is from WR or from LB ..Those are the 2 spots that have the original natural skills I mentioned above...The smart Teams will continue to look at late round or misfit talent to train and develop...


So yes as a true Guru of the game I have forgot far more than you will ever know....I do like to debate with you because you are very smart and you understand a whole lot about the game, but your on the field and your on the sideline personal knowledge is very limited it seems ..

 

I'll bet my house Cobi Hamilton will end up on the practice squad again. But I'm afraid he has improved so much & is NFL ready, we'll lose him to another team off the practice squad...

 

I also think they'll keep those 6 players... Ayers & Hamilton to the PS

 

Repeating the same stupidity doesn't make it sound smarter.

So... about 50 DBs in the NFL will be converted from their college position.... Why is it going to take 10 years for the smart teams to figure this out?

I don't like debating you. Your confident ignorance is annoying. You display so little understanding of the game that it makes your regular claims of coaching irrelevant. I don't need my football resume as a crutch.

 

The cycle has already begun as the TE spot has already changed at most Colleges, the RB spot has changed , the QB spot has changed , now the change is more Teams using more WR'S will force skilled HS players to that spot, this will continue down the ranks as HS Teams want the younger Teams to employ the same concepts as they run....

As I stated I watched this transition happen in a very similar way in the late 80's ...Is why you see the score boards a lot higher than the used to be in College because most Teams will put their best guys on O ....This will cause a short supply of skilled DB'S going into the NFL Teams will be forced to find DB help from other positions ...

A lot of Teams have already started looking at these spots for a diamond in the ruff so to speak ...And as the supply and demand keeps changing more and more Teams will look harder and harder .....

 

This has existed forever... there's a reason that the only anecdotal trend in player transitions over the last 60 years is from offensive skill position to a different offensive skills position (QB to WR, RB to WR, WR to TE, etc) is because the basis of your hypothesis is utter nonsense.

Hint: There's a big difference between searching for a diamond in the ruff... and a hidden cache of talent ready to be exploited.

 

OK back on topic what type of procedure is JuJu having ?And will this help Cobi make the 53 ? I think it will and I think if we try to get him on the practice squad he probably will get picked up...

 

I think the likelihood of any of the Steelers cuts being signed by another team is extremely low. Remember, they have to be signed to the 53-man roster, not to the other team's practice squad, so a team interested in Cobi Hamilton would have to waive someone to make room for him. Just don't see this happening.

 

Is Ju Ju even going to be able to help this team this year? It's only training camp and he's always injured. I'd take Coates or Cobi over him right now.

 

You would cut a 2nd round pick for Cobi Hamilton?

Or do you mean have him on IR or something?

 

Hell no, I wouldn't cut but IR or something. I just don't see him being able to help this year.

 

Have to revise that list now that Coates is off the PUP.

1. Brown
2. Bryant
3. Coates
4. Ju Ju
5. Rogers
6. DHB

 

That seems a bit over the top. He's been dinged up. Given that it's only training camp they have been erring on the side of caution and given him time off to heal. If it was during the regular season I'm guessing he would probably play through most of these "dings".