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Cap Reality

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SteelersFanIrl, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

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    Nov 5, 2011
    Yea lets cut Alualu :lolol: Does anyone here think that Tuitt can stay healthy?
    Ok, they cut Glass McDonald. Who plays tight end? They would need to go out and pay a quality free agent. So if cutting Glass saves 5.6 does anyone think a quality tight end is coming in for a ham sandwich?
    Hargrave will surely be gone. Shame. As well as Finney.
    Franchising Alvin is just a poor decision. Holes to fill on offense as well as defense.
    So who is jacked to see Big Dan the Lifetime Contract Man at the nose position? :eek:
    And watch Bince get owned in coverage. Barron is a better option.

    Ol Colbert and Popcorn best hit it right on this draft. Providing Colbert is still around. Maybe he jumps off the ship. Nose, OLB, ILB, Offensive Line ect ect are needs. Oh and tight end.

    The team would be just fine without Alvin. And save 16 mill to be spent elsewhere if in so it can be spent or swallowed up.
     
  2. steeler_george

    steeler_george Well-Known Member

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    Jan 18, 2020

    Steelerfan, not taking a jab at you but, I am confused now, why would increaseing salary over 30% benefit a team?
    Maybe I am wrong, but I thought it was that teams can not take a future salary and slash it (now only up to 30%) and make it into bonus, to allow cap flexibility.
     
  3. steeler_george

    steeler_george Well-Known Member

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    Jan 18, 2020
    I think that guy was a little too extreme concerning our cap problem. I agree with the most part, but why would you cut Allou, especially when he plays great whenever he fills in, is fairly cheap, and when we have no depth on the DL. If we are so desperate, I would rather go with a more extreme cut, say AV, Pouncey, or even Haden. I rather lose one of those players, (next man up- Chuck/?/Sutton/Layne, FA, or draft) and keep ur depth on the DL with Allou.

    Mark my words, none of those players are going to be here in 2 years, so might as well start replacing.
     
  4. steeler_george

    steeler_george Well-Known Member

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    Jan 18, 2020
    The thing is why mess up the duo with TJ. Those 2 together work, they feed off each other, mesh well. It is like having Woodley and Harrison on the edges, and Fitz being Polumou at the back end.
     
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Oct 22, 2011
    Well they don't have to pay a first rd. Draft pick this year. Some savings starting with a 2nd. I'm not to sure we sign hilton back. Sutton could fit that role possibly or he or layne start outside and Nelson takes the slot.

    make shazier a coach. Save 820,000.

    berry cut. Saves about 1.3 mil.

    switzer, holton, Edmunds cut saves about 2.2 mil.

    mccullers cut 1.3 mil.

    duck - .500,000

    These alone are about 6 mil. Add foster and chickillo and we are at 12.5 mil. With 1.5 we have and we are about 14 mil. That is without touching McDonald or barron.

    This puts a lot on chuks, gray to become what we drafted them to be.
    we keep paxton over duck.
    UG3 plays and so does spillane, gentry, ola and skipper.
    sign vannett.

    we haven't touched vince, alualu, McDonald or barron yet. They are roughly about another 9 mil. After dead money.

    we will have a lot of pressure on futures players and draft picks but we could have around 24 mil. to play with. Now the 30% could help. You could sign finney. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  6. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Pushing base salary in to the future benefits the team in the short term because it reduces the players cap number.

    Take Steven Nelson, his salary for 2019 was $1.5m which helped keep his cap number low at just $4m for 2019, this contract structure helped the team fit him in under the cap. For 2020 his salary goes up 350% to $5.25m. The Steelers won’t be allowed to do that kind of deal again until a new CBA is in place
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    Oct 27, 2011
    I could be wrong but I think the 30% rule is for restructures and not FA signings on a new deal.

    Nelson signed a 3 yr 25.5 mil deal with 7.5 fully guaranteed. That 7.5 mil Bonus spread across all three yrs @ 2.5mil/yr.

    2019 base was 1.5mil plus prorated bonus gave him a cap of 4mil which got him under the 2019 cap...... BUT now his 20’&21’ cap charges are 10.75mil/yr.....

    This is what typically happens with these contracts....... make it heavier on the back end Because they know they will get some help by the cap increasing down the road.

    We are in salary cap hell and we must pay the piper his dues......

    Next two years we’ll struggle to make a playoff run tied to aging expensive Vets, we’ll lose some good young talent but hopefully Mason will develop and we’ll draft well and once we see the cap relief sunrise we’ll make smart FA moves and Win another SB!!

    Cajun
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Boomer

    Boomer Well-Known Member

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    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2020/

    If you’re gonna be at the bottom of this list, you better be making the playoffs. And playing well in the playoffs. Our Steelers could be in deep trouble if Ben is not right. And still may be even if he is.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    What I do not understand is, every team has to spend and account for Cap dollars..and according to the CBA all of it has to be spent. The Colts had a terrific Cap hit on Luck's retirement, so I understand them now having a huge amount of Cap space, but 96 million???? I also know the cap is fluid and is easily manipulated to a certain degree, but 96 million with 60 players signed???? Makes no sense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    Apr 22, 2019
    I think Ryan Shazier has to face some reality. I admire his drive, and appreciate the team keeping him under contract, thus keeping his health insurance and getting his NFL pension. All of that stated, (and 1 million actually being a pittance against the Cap), he is not going to see an NFL field again in a football uniform. Would love for him to continue in some capacity, and that does not even have to be a Coach, and no I am not talking a token job. There are many different capacities he could fill, be active and a positive presence in the organization.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    Or he could go back to the half assed slop he played for 4 years prior. While he was not 'that bad' according to some, at times he was also not that good..and that is the issue when you are putting out big time guaranteed money for a one year wonder. If the dollars make sense sure, but the money he is likely going to command..I say pass.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. steeler_george

    steeler_george Well-Known Member

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    Jan 18, 2020
    That was my understanding of the rule too..
     
  13. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Rule applies to all contracts extending beyond the final year of the CBA unless something has changed. It includes free agents.

    I think we are essentially saying the same thing re Nelson. His cap charge complies with the rule as there is no change from 2020 to 2021. You would not be able to make the same deal with a free agent this off season however, unless of course a new CBA is agreed beforehand.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  14. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    He has been doing scouting for them, maybe that's the route they take. He at least qualifies for a pension for his accrued seasons.:cool:
     
  15. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    Several other playoff caliber teams have higher paid QB's then Ben. Somehow they compete. Ben's salary is not preventing us from fielding a good team. That's ridiculous
     
  16. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/

    Only Goff has a higher cap charge than Rothlisberger for 2020 across the whole league.

    Out of the top 10, only Garoppolo made it as far as the Championship round in 2019.

    Im not necessarily disagreeing with your broad point about ben btw, but it is interesting that QB salary does not necessarily correlate with success
     
  17. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    Please do the research..... No NFL Playoff team is paying their QB what Ben is making in 2020 or even 20’/21’ combined.

    Ben is 33.5 & 31.5 totaling 65mil.
    Wilson is 31 & 32 totaling 63mil
    Rodgers is 21.6& 36 totaling 57.6mil
    Cousins is 31 for 2020( final year)
    Jimmy G is 26 & 26 totaling 52
    Wentz is 18 & 34 totaling 52mil

    All NFC teams!!! The AFC teams where the Steelers play all have young cheap QBs!!! They also have tons of cap space the lowest being Chiefs @ 22.2 Mil cap space. The Pats currently without a viable Playoff caliber QB has 46.9 mil in cap space!! Do you really think they won’t be a playoff team next year???

    The Only Playoff team close to the Steelers n QB pay is The Seahawks and they have 62.7 mil in cap space because they rid themselves of aging overpriced vets and Drafted very well. Their QB is MVP caliber they are riding him to wins and now have money to help him.

    Ben is OLD and not mobile with a arm that is suspect. Riding him to the Playoff is questionable at best and his salary keeps us from keeping some of our own FA or bringing in the help we need ...

    Cajun
    <><
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Ben has to bounce bag in a huge way or his contract is a disaster that may set us back years to come...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    And the previous 3 or 4 seasons? How did we compare to other teams with elite QB's 2019 and 2018? Your list for the next 2 seasons obviously puts us at the top but Wilson and Rogers are also on that list but their teams are SB contenders and our team is not. But it's all because of Ben's contract. Bens contract is not the reason we are not competing. In fact if you look at the teams with the highest paid QB's...they typically out perform teams with low paid QB's.
     
  20. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    Please........ Tom Brady has made 230 mil in his 20 yr career. Ben at 16 yrs already is 231mil and when he’s at the end of this lady contract his 18 yr career would have paid him 271 mil$$$...... Tom has always taken a little less to make sure his team had the money to get the players they needed to win SBs!!!!! Ben’s last contract was up and he got an extension of 68 mil for two years putting him at the top paid QB....... we needed money for Bell but poor Ben needed his money.

    Also How much do you think Lamar is making and his team was arguably the best this year....... How about Mahomes or any of the AFC playoff teams????

    Rodgers cap in 2020 is 21mil, 12 mil leads than Bens so do you think they may use that cap space to keep or gain FA that the team needs ?????

    Cajun
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    So I was on OTC and got looking at the Transaction Table and found some interesting stuff. These numbers are from OTC so if for some reason they are wrong don't blame me.....

    We can restructure these guys with the saving shown:

    Ben 9.977 mil
    Tuitt 5.453
    Pouncey 3.477
    Nelson 3.715
    Vance 2.352
    VW 1.527


    Savings by doing an extension:

    DD 6.244 mil
    Cam 6.844
    Haden 4.764


    So by restructuring we save 26.501 m and by extensions we save 17.852 for a total of 44.353 cap space..........and we did cut anyone. The big part here for me are 2 guys, VW and Vance. Both these guys have reasons to keep, Vance mostly because the FA class is not good. VW because his contract don't allow us to cut him. Now add in cutting guys like Chick, Foster and Barron we would have well over 50 mil........holy cow.

    I have said over and over we can find the money if there were guys we want to sign and here is proof.


    https://overthecap.com/transactions-table/
     
  22. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt they would do a extension with Haden, he just got a new contract last year for 3 years, he's on the wrong side of 30.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  23. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I can see it and it don't have to be top dollar, how long have we searched for this kind of DB?
     
  24. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Those numbers don’t look right to me. Ben only has one year left so no way they can push $9m in to next year. Vince salary is only $900k yet they are saying they can save $1.5m with a restructure? Haden only signed a new deal last year.

    Not having a pop at you btw, I know they are not your figures, all I am saying is take them with a large grain of salt.
     
  25. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I was very shocked at them numbers but like I said these guys are putting them out there. Here is what it says:

    Restructure and extension figures represent the maximum number of cap dollars that can be saved executing those transactions.

    I am not sure what you mean about Vince his salary is just over 7 mil but we can save only 968k if we cut him. This is why we have to keep him.....

    PS I know you were not taking a pop no problem man. :thumbs_up:
     

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