Butler is it scheme or lack of talent

Allen and Blake weren't great but they were experienced. They didn't make the mistakes Burns and Davis are now making. People want to know why in the past DL didn't start rookies and let them learn as they go? He didn't want to be 4-5. Live by the sword. Die by the sword. People want to know why we aren't more predictable. Take rookies and be un-predictable and we could go from 4-5 to 2-7.

Regarding Dupree, with the time lost, if and when he gets back, by season end he will be lucky to be back to where he was at the end of last season.

 

The secondary is not great by any means... but the root of all problems is the D-line. They are overrated big time and the main reason Steelers are giving up big runs. I've noticed for every loss this year, with the exception of the New England game... the Steelers D-line has lost the battle in the trenches.

 

Well the D line coach has been here for 20 plus years, maybe it's time to get a new one..........

 

It's scheme and the ridiculous/outdated notion that our DL is only there to take up blockers so our LBs can make tackles....Tomlin made a comment about our DL staying in their lanes....what is this kick off coverage or are we actually gonna let our guys use their God given ability to actually make a play....
Heyward= Athletic......Tuitt=Athletic ...Hargrave was supposed to have a quick get off and first step and was supposedly unblockable in camp....so Athletic?? Yes. It's almost like these guys aren't on the field you hardly hear their names called.....secondary that would be good...guys closest to the ball....not so good. You can't tell me that all of a sudden these guys are no good.
Our personnel decisions,scheming,game planning and overall football IQ has been on a steady decline both from the players and the entire coaching staff....I'm not convinced we have the solution to our problems in house....but the first step would be to admit there is one...then maybe we can do something about it.

 

Good point .I think the game man have changed a bit. He preaches he wants guys that run to the ball....I'm not sure if he expected it to be 20 yards down the field....

 

Lack of talent; missing some no less.



Dupree and Senquez's injuries have put Butler's plans behind the eight ball. Ryan Shazier does not have a legitimate attack partner; ditto for Anthony Chickillo. Artie Burns is spilling some serious blood as is Sean Davis but both are still in the process of learning. As for the defensive line, having Tuitt and Heyward out there for a high percentage of snaps illustrates the lack of depth.


In short, there is not enough talent or said talent is missing for Butler to do much of anything.... and that is not even accounting for the lack of discipline, execution and fundamentals by the defense itself; yet again another issue that Butler cannot control.

 

Well he inherited LeBeaus scheme but he has made some tweaks. Defense has only lost us 1 game this year and you can argue maybe 2 with the combination of the offense. He's doing stuff a lot of us fans scream for like blitzing when we had them pinned deep but then they run the perfect play against the blitz, a screen and take it to the house. Getting very unlucky. He is working with a lack of talent compared to LeBeaus last few years and doing better so I'm optimistic. Just look at all the rookies finally seeing the field.

 

You cite 3 things here - discipline, execution and fundamentals. Are you saying all 3 are not under KB's control or only some of those. Execution is on the players, I'll give KB that, but the other two can be coached imo.

 

All three of those can be coached easily. That stance we both can agree on Turtle . The issue then becomes can the players actually performing the "Holy Trinity" of American Gridiron Football 101. So far, the players have not been able to do so; something that I am certain Butler preaches on a constant daily basis.


As such, that really is the only thing he can do. If the players are not able to perform those three actions when we know Butler is a far more capable coach, the players and only the players then have themselves to blame for incidents like Ezekiel's statement of the Steelers defense "parting the Red Sea."

 

its the talent.

any scheme can be highly effective with talent.

there's exactly ONE player who is a high level talent on this defense, and he's now out for the year.

If you think the issue is scheme, please explain the scheme in some detail. Because "cushions" and "why do LBers cover WRs!!!" and "We don't blitz enough" are not scheme.

you can blame whomever you want for the lack of talent (hint: it's a mix of all 3 - the players, the coaches, and the front office).... but at the end of the day, the talent is the problem on defense. The only good news is that there is still some high ceiling 1st and 2nd year players that can get much better... but aren't guaranteed to.

 

It's talent. Chick, Moats, Harrison and Jones are the worst group of OLBs every fielded in Steelers history.

We are using this nickel formation of just 2DL that is ridiculous. Especially when you don't have the OLBs to support it.

They need to invest heavily into the OLB position if they want this to work. Drafting will help but you need someone in there to bridge the gap while they are waiting for their turn.

If that means letting Bell walk after this season to signed a high priced OLB and still drafting a couple then that's what we must do. Drastic measures are needed if you want to get this defense back to respectability.

 

I bet you anything by the time our defense becomes a solid unit, Ben will be gone. Then when we find his replacement our D will stink.

 

I think they should invest heavily in traditional Edge players in a DE mold (4-3/nickel front).

We are no longer built to run the 34 and it is no longer a staple of our defense.

It would be bizarre to continue to draft edge OLBs for it.

 

At this point we need pass rushers in any form. Even the ones you mentioned. Hopefully he's athletic enough to drop in coverage into the flat underneath zone they always have our OLBs do.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure I have any clue any more about what is the issue. Scheme, inexperience, talent, lack of focus, not paying attention to detail. I think we give up 4-5 backbreaking plays a game. One is a bad substitution. The next, we were in the wrong play call. The next, one of the youth makes the wrong play. Then we take a play off and get burned. IT is all crazy.

 

It coaching.... Tenn's defense is playing better then ours. Enough said

 

I'm not saying your right or wrong but how do we know it's talent if the coaches can't coach. What if they aren't "coaching " it out of them. We too frequently see guys put in position to fail,announcers have even alluded to it as recently as Sunday, and we question with our own eyes why a rookie is left on a island on 3rd and 11 against their best WR and why we have to see the back of LTs jersey way more often than we need too. Like you said we do have some high picks waiting to develop on D ,guys who have nice potential ,if they don't start to pan out soon will it be because of a lack of talent? I believe that good coaching and preparation and putting guys in position to succeed can go a long way into turning chicken **** into chicken salad....I know it's not the pros but you see it all the time in college,when a good coach goes to a school with a bad history.....I don't know man I wish we had the answer but right now there's too many questions...both players and coaches.

 

It's got to be scheme. He relies on the top dogs (perceived top dogs) way too much these days.

There's almost no rotation on the D-line that's actually meaningful.

Teams look like they know this and exploit it regularly when they need a play or 2.

You can't keep running guys into the ground week after week and expect them to hold up against other teams!

Look at the Miami game! They were rotating their O-line because of the heat, but yet Butler kept shuffling those guys out there watching them basically puke their guts out trying to stop them.

 

That was the conventional wisdom here regarding Justin Gilbert's lack of performance while in Cleveland: "doesn't mean he's a dud, look at the level of coaching he probably got."

 

They also have Jurell Casey and Orapko on defense, LeBeau last few seasons with the Steelers the defense wasn't good either.

 

If you're starving to death a pack of saltines looks delicious...

 

Get rid of Butler. Bring in Monti Kiffin or Marvin Lewis

 

The players on the field are put in positions to succeed, they just haven't succeeded, it's on them.

Fans complain about cushions, and then complain about man coverage.

Fans should realize they are complaining about individuals, not scheme.

 

Staying in your lane is fundamental run stopping football...

 

Just putting D players in position to beat their guy is the simplistic approach to having a good defense:


as Pete Carroll put it:

"Our defense is a 4-3 scheme with 3-4 personnel. It's just utilizing the special talents of our guys."