Butler good - players mediocre

I've said it before. I don't believe in the notion that we can draft O but not D. The success of the O and the lack of on D can be blamed on the coaches on their respected sides of the ball. It helps to have the franchise QB to pull it all together but look at the quality of the coaches. OL= enough said. Our WRs coaches former and current are considered some of the best. RB coach not retained ,already hired.
Now look at the D side. You tell me we don't have talent with all those 1s and 2s? Look at the coaching on that side. Not at the current DL and CB coaches because they are 1st year coaches. Look at who was there before specifically Lake. So is it the inability for some strange reason to not be able to draft D or is it the coaching and development that are poor. I've mentioned before that it seems guys on the D regress instead of getting better. Again that points to coaching.

Our HC is a former secondary coach ,yet our secondary seems to be the biggest weakness and our track record in the draft when selecting players at that position are abysmal. There are some that will argue it is a Colbert problem but from a few sources I have seen He and Tomlin are either lock step or Tomlin has final say. You can believe what you want but ask yourself if the arrows aren't pointing to the guy who made his name as a DB coach being able to select who he wants in the secondary.I think a major flaw in their drafting strategy on D is that they seem to think they can select younger guys that they think they can mold in the way they want into actual football players(Burns,Dupree etc....) The problem is they are failing miserably in the development process and that goes back to coaching and or drafting guys based off of their perceived ceilings rather than how low their floor is as well, especially without the proper development that we seem to be lacking. All the signs point to this being Tomlins vision of what he wants his D to look like especially since I strongly believe he is buying the ingredients in the secondary.

So to answer the question...is it Butler or mediocre players?....,.,It's Tomlin/Butler and the complacency with the coaching ability (development)on the defensive side of the ball. Remember Lake left because of "family " Mitchell was "promoted " I feel both of them outstayed their actual value for a few extra years and now we finally got rid of Porter and it sounds more like it was because of his issues with the team rather than his actual ability to do his job or not. It seems now we are adopting the philosophy of breaking down every position on D to a different coach. This is from a team that already has communication issues. Interested to see if it hurts or helps. We shall see.

 

I agree with most of your opinion but there is an issue with some players. Artie Burns was never "good", he was a major reach but was picked up because the team was desperate for a CB. Dupree wasn't as much of a reach as he was really raw but his athleticism was enough for them to take a chance that he could be coached up. I'm also going out on a limb and saying the Edmunds, also a major reach, isn't going to be anything more than 'serviceable" or "breather" for his tenure.

I truly hope I'm wrong but he doesn't look to be picking the game up any better and if you remember, Burns starting looking bad at the end of his rookie year and has gotten progressively worse. I don't think it just happened to him though, I think the more of him teams saw on tape, the more they began to target him which made it seem as if he was getting worse.

Dupree trained with a pass rushing specialist and it still didn't change anything. If he truly was good at the game he would have been able to find another move other than a speed rush. So yes, I agree there is issues with the coaching, the constant miscommunication isn't just because the guys are bad, something isn't being taught. However the lack of player development I don't see as being all coaching, even on their own you'd expect to see some progress eventually.

Edmunds may need better coaching and I hope he gets better but he is another guy in that "potential" column that the team keeps drafting instead of using what a guy puts on tape. That explains why Dupree hasn't done anything, Artie is a bust and Sutton can't make it into the lineup, there just isn't much talent, it is all "potential" and it explains the lack of progress better than lack of coaching at this point.

 

I pretty much agree with you too. Part of my point is they gambled on being able to develop them and failed. As far as Burns I don’t think what they ask of him helps his cause. He’s not a zone corner. As far as Dupree the onus falls more on a coaching staff that has had him for 4 years. It’s apparent to everyone he hasn’t developed a move in this time and he’s just not very good. Meanwhile instead of seeing what we have in some other guys. They just continually parade him out there when he isn’t the answer. Hilton is another one that seems to have regressed. Davis has never been better than the promise he showed the first year. Sutton and Allen are also two guys that don’t get a fair chance. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it but to me there seems like there are reasonable roles for other guys. JMO

 

A

AND...He ran like a 4.8...And his medical said he had curvature of the spine..Ya..Great pick!

 

James Harrison just said the same thing in an interview. It’s not Butler it’s Tomlin meddling and not letting him run the D. WTF

 

Yes, we need upgrades at certain positions. .

But is it butler or tomlin that has lbers covering wr1's

 

Still preparing for Eifert

 

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013jjones.php

Despite popular opinion, many people had Jones as a top edge rusher coming into the draft. So when they drafted him, like Dupree, people weren't up in arms with pitchforks, although no one wants to admit it now.


The picks that have been more questioning have been the Artie Burns pick as well as the most recent Terrell Edmunds. The verdict is in for Artie but still out there for Terrell.

In my mind, Terrell was a mistake picking so high. I liked Jessie Bates that ended up going to Cincy in the 2nd round.

 

So... Tomlin spoke through Butler when asked about Eifert?

I get what they are saying, and it's probably true to some extent knowing how things have played out. But - Butler still doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed at this point.

 

Yeah everything about this post is true. There were a few grumblings about JJ on this board, but the consensus was he was a good pick.

I had Artie on target for the 3rd, so I was shocked when we pulled the trigger in the 1st. Edmunds wasn’t even on my radar. Other than Jamain Stephens, I don’t recall Cowher reaching for a guy like we’ve been doing under Tomlin.

Draft is largely a crapshoot, but our recent 1sts have been mostly projects. Only Watt has panned out. Jury still out on edmunds but he seems more athlete than football player.

On topic with Butler, Mike Mitchell was good before coming here, mediocre while here, and then just galvanized the Colts secondary/defense as a mid-season pickup. I think our scheme/coaching is largely to blame over our players.

 

I was all for bringing Mike Mitchell back... he probably would have been even more successful in Morgan Burnett’s role.

 

If Mike Tomlin truly was calling the defensive plays for the majority of the season, that in it of itself should amplify how hot his proverbial seat is becoming. For that matter, this also means that he has little to no faith in Butler.


As a Head Coach, while it is one's job to assist with the gameplanning, obtaining total autonomy of the gameplanning should not be the end result. That is what coordinators are for. Let them do their intended roles. Head Coach should be more focused on the other major aspects such as Time Management and Micromanagement. Handling more than one should can decrease to heavily decrease team camaraderie and unity.



This in itself raises a good question. One that, given the new set of information needs to be asked. What is the point of having a guy whom one has little faith in commanding role he has little to do with?

 

Ok look at Dupree. Everyone pretty much had him going as a #1 pick. His knock out of college was the guy didn't use his hands well. After 4 years, the same damn thing. He has a large frame, but for whatever reason he doesn't utilize it well to gain leverage at the point of attack. He has a great first step and good top speed for a linebacker. He has good awareness and discipline with the rush defense. He does well in zone defense in the pass although doesn't make many breakout plays.

So what's wrong? Funny I think about Kevin Greene and especially Greg Lloyd. What would happen to Dupree if I put Greg Lloyd's mentality into his frame?

Should we blame the lack of development by the coaching staff or the lack of will by the player? The overall culture contributes to the mindset of the player. The owner and coach is ultimately responsible for the culture.

I don't think Butler of himself is as bad as being portrayed to be. Obviously he needs to review the Chargers tape to find out what went wrong with Keenan Allen destroying linebackers, but things got a lot better by the end of the year.

Artie Burns played terrible this year. Not sure what was going on. He caught the Boswell bug apparently. So lack of talented defensive players especially has to be taken into account.

It is pretty tough to call out Artie Burns as a bust pick, but I think the writing is on the wall there.