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Butler good - players mediocre

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by LoneGranger, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. LoneGranger

    LoneGranger Well-Known Member

    May 5, 2016
    Ron Cook: Keith Butler isn’t the problem for the Steelers defense

    "The problem for the Steelers defense this season wasn’t Butler or bad coaching. It was too many mediocre players."

    "I just wish Tomlin would allow Butler to run the defense without so much interference. Being involved in the game plan is one thing. That’s a must for any head coach. Correcting calls that he doesn’t like during a game is another thing. But taking over the play-calling, which I believe Tomlin frequently does, is too much. It’s hard to blame Butler exclusively when things don’t go well."

    "It’s certainly not his fault that Ryan Shazier was injured in Cincinnati in December, 2017. I also don’t think it’s his fault that Artie Burns, Bud Dupree and Jon Bostic – among others – weren’t good enough this season."

    So it is Tomlin's defensive interference and Colbert's mediocre drafting and mediocre acquisition of free agents.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    I agree!

    Come on these players we have now can't hold a candle to the players of years past. Lacking talent.

    Is that a Scouting/GM issue is the question I'm raising? Maybe Colbert and Tomlin just aren't on the same page???
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin

    Oct 12, 2011
    In someone's opinion, yes.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2018
    It's a combination of both.
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. SteelerJJ

    SteelerJJ Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2011
    The Jarvis pick, Woodley's contract, Burns, Dupree .... it is really hard to polish that ----.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  6. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Man, I'm an arm-chair fan and I could see Jarvis was a bad pick day 1. Hard to believe Colbert pulled the trigger on that?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. SteelerJJ

    SteelerJJ Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2011

    Pro Day stats aren't everything but Archer did more bench reps than Jones did. The athleticism was never there.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    vince freeking williams given a bigger contract and thinking he was the guy to take shaziers role. who in the h*ll came up with that one? :cool:
    • Like Like x 2
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  9. Smitch89

    Smitch89 Well-Known Member

    Sep 11, 2018
    Dri Archer did more reps of 225 than Jarvis did?.. Seriously? Lol
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  10. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    MT,butler,Art2.0 and colbert are the problem or at least add to it as a group. :cool:
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

    Nov 1, 2014
    need to stop these draft reaches. Just get BPA imo
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. GoalLine


    Oct 16, 2011
    Colbert's acquaintance Phill Phelichick gave him that suggestion. Colbert had to ask him to clarify a few times because Phill was laughing so hard. Kevin reportedly said that was just a genius idea!
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  13. Thigpen82


    Oct 17, 2011
    I don't know if we can separate out who was calling what plays defensively from a fan's perspective.

    However, in some games we were doing the same thing over and over again; in other games we saw more creative schemes that put our players in a better position to succeed. For me, I find it difficult to imagine an HC jumps up and says "No! Just do the same thing you did last play!" So it seems that the former was on Butler. But I could be wrong. No way of knowing, really.

    This is why I think we'll Tomlin take a more formal hold over the defense next season, assuming Butler sticks around.

    I think the issue of player mediocrity is true to an extent, but it's also true that we often put the defense in positions they just weren't going to succeed in.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  14. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

    May 9, 2012

    I believe wholeheartedly it’s an AR2 issue. We have never reached for players in the draft. That is we have never reached for players until selecting Jarvis Jones. Since then it seems we have reached for numerous players(golson, burns, Davis etc). That says to me that something has changed with how we go about our business and Colbert didn’t just change on his own accord. Which leaves AR2 as possibly doing his best Steinbrenner impersonation. If you would prefer a football reference then jerry Jones.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Jammasterc

    Jammasterc Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2011
    Look at what the Patriots Defense did yesterday.
    In a week or two time they ran the Ravens type Defense.
    It beat up Rivers.

    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    That would mean coaching, not players
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    Oct 16, 2011
    MT is the problem. People who think he is just a figurehead are wrong. His fingerprints are all over this team. From being heavily involved in the defense to making draft picks. I was reading in one of the beat writers chats that MT is much more responsible for the picks than people realize. I tend to believe that because Colbert/Cowher seemed to be better than Colbert/Tomlin.

    Getting rid of MT was my first wish, if they didn’t do that, I was hoping for a top notch DC but Tomlin probably doesn’t want that because that DC wouldn’t stand for Tomlin meddling in his defense.

    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2011
    I've heard/read that Tomlin and Colbert are in lock step when it comes to the draft. They pretty much come up with a consensus on every pick and if they disagree Tomlin has final say. I'd say it's time to clean house. Get a new GM and HC in here.....but we know it's not gonna happen.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. sjromano

    sjromano Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2011
    Still not buying it. Listening to Butler still makes me believe the guy isn't the sharpest defensive mind.

    But if KC and MT are partially to blame here (they are) - then it's time for an ownership gut check.
  20. Brews Crew

    Brews Crew Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2011

    So if the team is drafting mediocre or bad players, does that fall on Colbert, Tomlin or our scouting staff? Maybe they just can't evaluate talent anymore.
  21. jeh1856


    Oct 26, 2011
    It’s a team effort.
  22. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

    Oct 23, 2011
    It's a combination of factors.

    Drafting on the defensive side of the ball had been abysmal since 2015.

    Tomlin makes poor decisions.

    Butler's scheme is dated and I don't think he can command our defensive players.
  23. SteelerJJ

    SteelerJJ Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2011

  24. Trafalgar

    Trafalgar Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2016
    It's an all-around mess, it's still a better defense than it was a couple of years ago. That said, it falls to peices in the 4th quarter which undoes all the good work that's gone before it. I've seen enough of Tomlin, but we have to draft better. Jones (many thought he was maxed out at college and would not step up) - he didn't, Dupree (bust) and Burns (very close to calling time on him) have not helped. We just don't have good enough players in the secondary and haven't since Ike and Troy retired.
  25. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    I saw a recent video with James Harrison confirming Butler isn't the true defensive coordinator, Tomlin's heavily involved.

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