Butler deserves more time

One more year, MAX ! How long was he working under LeBeau ? How long has not been working under LeBeau to get his ship in order ?

 

I think us playing the one more year game is a bad move

 

Keep in mind that LeBeau had some nice pieces to work with within an era where formation weaknesses were all the rage. That is not the case anymore as personnel weaknesses are paramount in today's game.


Butler has those pieces but not the nice ones LeBeau had. For that matter, Butler's greatest assest in terms of status remains up in the air. The rest of the defense has improved vastly since LeBeau left but ultimatley still has some growing up to do.


Realisitcally, we need a safety in the worst way possible but due to Shazier's condition, likely a first round ILB, one in Free Agency or even both are likely on the to do list. As much as I appreciate Mitchell, he really is on the wrong side of 30 and Sean Davis is better suited towards playing Free Safety anyways.

 

Bud Dupree essentially is an attacking 4-3 defensive end. His issue is his lack of instincts or rather poor instincts. Considering that strong side ends need more muscle and less thought, kick him there.


Question remains, will Tomlin and Butler go full 4-3? We seem to now have the personnel for it and uses faux 4-3 concepts during the season. I hope that is the direction Pittsburgh takes but I am not sure.

 

Butler has done a good job of improving the pass rush since he took over, he needs to work on in game adjustments though. Like in the Pats game Butler kept Davis on Gronk, even though Davis was struggling big time.

 

He's from my hometown... I was older by a year and didn't get to play with him. He was a hell of an athlete... But always suspect in terms of having common sense. I root for the dude, but even in our 40s now he still finds a way to dolt up somehow. I don't see him as an needed piece in the org and hold my breath for the next time. In all honesty, if it was as simple as him being a good dude or a great athlete which I'll never argue against I'd be sold. Fact is, he's a good dude a hell of a former athlete who's prone to stupid decisions and hasn't shown any upgrade to the LB core with his presence at coach. What he offers as a coach isn't much at this point. Don't really see nor sure I want to see him as DC here but hey mofos surprise all the time... Just don't see the ability to handle the gig.

 

Which is weird as Porter was **** canned upon Tomlins arrival. I'm sure that was another FO move not tomlins

 

We presumed that before the latter knowledge of wondering who had a finger in the pie with the D... Keith or Mike?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Yeah that was a bad move. I don' get why he didn't press a lb underneath and have Davis shade over the top and dBl team.

 

FWIW Tomlin said afterwards that Davis was supposed to get help on some of those plays, I was guessing he didn't want to throw Mitchell under the bus by naming names.

 

We need an upgrade at safety in the worst way imagineable. But yeah, they'll probably draft LBer all over again first OLB more likely... Don't make sense but it does round here. I think Bud could thrive if the terminology changes... As could other pieces but we need a safety or 2 upgrade for sure. Not giving up on Davis but Mitchell old, injured or not really has never hit his stride here in relation to his panther days which was pretty much a good season or 2 anyhow. I was hoping he'd replace Ryan but it never really materialized.

As much as a special ILB provided in Shazier, stout safety play wouldve softened the blow. Shazier is possibly more of a once in a generation positional player than Bell and yet, that backend was still **** with him on the field.

 

The way they played, they all were expecting to get some help... Didn't happen. #communication

 

Mitchell was horrible. He couldn't even just at least make sure no big plays were given up. Safety imo is more of a need than ilb we need a earl Thomas type of guy back there.

 

Why, it's not like we having an aging QB and aging star WR who need to win now and not later. I see no problem with continuing to play the long game...

 

This right here is a point most don't look at when they are calling for Butler's job. He has taken over for DL while MT was trying to change this D, and IMO he hasn't done a bad job. Like you pointed out replace Mitchell and Shazier and this D is a ton better. Mitcheel is the weak link since he can't read, react and MOVE!!!!!

 

Don't forget the running back who could be franchise tagged, then leave after the 2018 season. (Yeah, I heard the stuff about positive talks. Those are just talks until there is a deal, which is probably a bad idea anyway.)

Regarding the overall topic, it isn't about what people deserve. It's about what is best for the team, and that is a shake-up of the defensive coaching staff. Sadly, Tomlin and the front office are refusing to go that route.

I could see more 4-3, maybe even a full fundamental shift, as a possibility. Tomlin was a 4-3 guy before coming to Pittsburgh. The roles he asks the outside linebackers to play in the current defense fit a bit more with a 4-3. I think it would be a better fit for Hargrave, Heyward and Tuitt. The main problems are they don't have the speed rushers outside and they don't have a middle linebacker. It would take time to shift the personnel, which isn't ideal given the team's current situation.

 

You never know when Ben will hit the wall and there are young up and coming teams in the afc. This is a win now league..

 

The problem with the 4-3 is... Tuitt and Heyward are not 4-3 DEs... they are closer to DTs. Not nearly fast enough for a 4-3 DE. We have no true 4-3 DEs on the roster. Dupree could have been, had he lived up to his potential... but judging by his play in '17, he would get ran over as a 4-3 DE, just like he did as a 3-4 OLB.

Simply put.. Steelers don't have the personnel in place to run a true 4-3. This should have been done around '12-'13. It's too late now.

 

The steel curtain will never be back or duplicated (one of a kind).

 

All the more reason both Tomlin and Butler need to decide if they want to fully implement a 4-3 defense using the 4-2-5 as the base nickel package. One can also use faux 3-4 looks from this as well.


The biggest reason though is that Butler's level of thinking among the defensive lineman is ultimatley styming their ability to penetrate the backfield and wreak havoc like he wants them to. A 4-3 defense is all about gap integrity whereas a 3-4 is more about maintaining the point of attack. Considering the likes of Cameron Heyward and Javon Hargrave are disruptive lineman anyways, why not use a scheme that can maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses?

 

You are correct. He did essentially replicate the style of a 4-3 using the systemics from the Eagle 3-4 we were running.


Within that same vein though, there are different fronts the 4-3 has within its disposal to combat opposing rushing attacks. Take the 4-3 Under ("Seattle Style" Defense as you may know it) depicted below:






That "Leo" position really is a "modified" 3-4 outside linebacker who needs to be the best athlete on the defense. We have the personnel to run fronts like the 4-3 Under. Furthermore, it does not have to include the "LEO" either.


As you said, we do run the 3-4 Eagle as it is currently. However, what if I told you that the 3-4 Eagle and the 4-3 Tampa 2 were nearly identical to each other? Both are one gapping schemes predicated on disruption and penetration. The difference lies in the coverage of the linebackers. The Eagle defense must have linebackers that can cover short and sometimes intermediate range whereas the Tampa 2 requires linebackers who can cover short, intermediate and long range if need be in coverage.


Ultimately, both the 4-3 Tampa 2 and 3-4 Eagle are very similar to each other and both, ironically, can be used with our defense. I personally though believe switching towards a 4-3 Over Tampa 2 defense is what will maximize the talent we have on defense as the faux 4-3 looks can do only so much for your defensive lineman from a 3-4 standpoint.

 

From SI:
The argument could be made that the Steelers are already equipped to run the 4-3, but that wouldn’t be true. The key is in the defensive line. I have no doubt that that defensive ends Cameron Heyward and Stephon Tuitt could be a devastating interior tandem. However, the lack of depth on the defensive line doesn’t allow for a rotation. This means Tuitt and Heyward rack up massive snap numbers, and wear down.