Billy B...not 1st Ballot HoF. Will Ben also get screwed over?

One of the few times in his career that Peter ever said something that made sense.

Super Bowl Rings are awarded to the team; not an individual. Yes, Franchise QBs make that journey to get there easier but the rest of the team is what allows the journey to be completed. Takes two to tango.

 

It is not merely a judgment of awards and stats though. The whole aspect to determine a First Ballot HOF versus one that isn't comes down to sustained dominance. Peyton had that in spades for much of his career. Same goes with Aaron Rodgers.

 

Given what just happened to Belichick, are we sure about Brady now?!

Never say never.

 

well they were both super bowl MVP’s but i give Swann’s overall performance the edge including catches with a higher degree of difficulty.

 

Top 10 QB ever?!


Vehemently disagree here.


We are talking about the 100+ years of the NFL. There were great QBs who came before Big Ben. Of those QBs?! Sammy Baugh, Sonny Jurgensen, Norm Van Brocklin and last but not least, Johnny Unitas. All four were either the best or very best for a far longer stretch of their careers and were pioneers of the position; doubly so in Unitas' case.


Until the likes of Dan Marino and John Elway came into the NFL, Johnny Unitas was largely hailed as the greatest QB ever to play.

 

Fair enough.


Santonio's catch was needed to win. Big Ben made one of the greatest throws in Super Bowl History. That said, for any pass to matter, the Wideout has to catch it.

 

Brees was voted to more pro bowls. Sure. Bens playoff record is 13-10. Drew’s is 9-9. I call that more sustained dominance.

 

So again, records don't always tell the whole story. There are a lot of factors that have to be accounted for when it comes to records for QBs. Brees never had many, if any, top flight defenses.


Big Ben?! From 2004 to 2011, Pittsburgh was largely a Top Five to Top Three Unit overall. In addition, Big Ben played with a Mt. Rushmore player in the man in my avatar.

 

Ben still led one of the most prolific offenses in the league in the leagues toughest division too. Im just saying hes in the Rodgers, Manning, Brees class. He deserves to be a 1st ballot HOFer too. Thats all.

i just realized you added Rodgers and Manning. Well their playoff records are in the ballpark as Ben’s.

 

Big Ben did lead one of the most prolific Offenses in the NFL that the league hadn't seen in some time. That is true. However, how often was Big Ben dominant during the era of the Killer B's?! Stretches of games for sure but not at a consistent rate.


As for Rodgers and Manning, again, playoff records need to be looked at more closely than just what is given. Both Aaron and Manning fielded Top 5 Defenses very little times; two for Aaron during his Green Bay career and Peyton Manning never having one. Big Ben?!


Again, that run of renegade from 2004 to 2011 was nuts. That team was primed and loaded for Big Ben. If anything, sans his 2005 Playoff run, Big Ben was largely a passenger.

 

Have to disagree. Ben was not a passenger. Far from it. Without Ben that defense gets worn out, sustains injuries, and the players have shorter careers.

 

I did say for the two Super Bowl wins.


As for 2012 to the end of his career, the team was Big Ben's but he was never able to have dominant season after dominant season. Pittsburgh's Defenses though would rank as follows;

• 2012: 1st in Total Defense (yards), 6th in points allowed.
  
• 2013: 12th in Total Defense.
• 2014: 18th in Total Defense.
• 2015: 11th in Points Allowed.
• 2016: 10th in Points Allowed.
• 2017: 7th in Points Allowed, 5th in Total Defense.
• 2018: 6th in Points Allowed.
• 2019: 5th in Points Allowed, 5th in Total Defense.

As I said before and will again, there are a lot of things to unpack when accounting for such rankings. That includes Defensive Rankings. 2014 marked the beginning of the end for Troy but the arrival of another HOF Player in Cam Heyward. 2015-2017 right before his injury were the Ryan Shazier years; a player who was well on his way of being special prior to the injury. 2017 saw the Steelers draft a Mt. Rushmore 3-4 Rush Backer in T.J. Watt. 2019 he didn't play but a quasi borderline HOF Talent in Minkah Fitzpatrick came into the mix when he got back. 2020 was when everything was going well... until he hurt his elbow. If anything, that injury to his elbow marked the beginning of the end for Big Ben. Even at the very end of his career, for both 2020 and 2021, Pittsburgh finished in the following categories;




2020 Defensive Performance (Rank: 3rd Overall)

• Total Defense: 1st in the NFL, allowing just 312.0 yards per game.
• Scoring Defense: 3rd in the NFL, allowing 19.5 points per game.
• Key Stats: Led the league in sacks and maintained a strong passing defense.

2021 Defensive Performance (Rank: 24th Overall)

• Total Defense: 24th in the NFL, allowing 361.1 yards per game.
• Scoring Defense: 20th in the NFL, allowing 23.4 points per game.
• Key Stats: Struggled significantly against the run, ranking 32nd in the league in rushing yards allowed per game

In short?! Big Ben almost never played with a team that had a bad defensive season. Never. Coincidentally enough, neither did Tom Brady. That said, Tom Brady had far greater stretches of dominance than Big Ben could have ever hoped for. Even if wanting to remove Brady for the sake of discussion, Aaron Rodgers did far more with far less; same goes for Brees and doubly so for Manning.