Big Snack Restructures

We don't need him,we need to draft his replacement. We wuld be able to get along
fine without him. he hasn't performed well for 3 years. Cut him,he is done.

 

The way it is restructured will save money if he is on the roster or released.
A bum knee and he will be a force. Really?
He is done. Hampton used to be a force, taking on two and getting up field.
Now he is a shell, hardly handling one and being used as a turnstyle.
If Hokey Pokey didn't retire Snack would be gone.
And he still might not see the field.
A nose is going to be drafted, thats a given, where is anybodys guess.
Ziggy can move to nose if needed.

 

i heard they were looking at fortson from miami. he makes alot of plays. not your typical size for NT though. he gets good penatration into the backfield.

 

Well with a whopping two or three guys in this year's draft class that could potentially step in and play better than McLendon on day one, how can you be sure we'll get one?

Good one!

 

Last year was a down year fir snack but the year before we only let up 67 yards a game. In a 3-4 defense you dont do that without a top nt.

 

Good one![/quote:2mtgqkle]
i think there are more then that. i don't think mclendon is all that special at the position. he's decent and that's about all.

 

i think there are more then that. i don't think mclendon is all that special at the position. he's decent and that's about all. [/quote:2wmg8eur]
Two or three guys that we could count on, then. Of course, there could be some guy out there none of us have heard of that will be a Hall of Famer, but we can't rely on that. I agree with you about McLendon, and that's part of my point. If we cut Hampton now, all we have is one guy who does alright as a third stringer. If we don't get a chance to draft one of the very few nose tackles in this draft that are expected to be good (especially be good right away! How many of those are there this year...?), then we will have McLendon and only McLendon, and possibly be totally screwed. And if anyone thinks some random late round flyer is likely to be better than Casey Hampton, they are crazy. Possible? Yes, anything's possible. Likely? No, not at all. And it's irresponsible to go into a season with one third-string NT and late draft pick who would be considered an overachiever if he ever gets to start at all. There are a couple of decent options (Chapman, Ta'amu), but they could easily be snapped up before we get the chance by one of the many teams now running a 3-4. And most people wouldn't even call NT our top priority, or even our second priority.

As for Hampton not being any good for the last three years, I don't really have any individual stats to support that, because he's a nose tackle and didn't have good stats when he was the best in the league. But there are team stats, and most people know that if your NT is not good, you do not have a good run defense, let alone a great one. Last year, in what many would consider to be his worst ever, we finished 8th in run defense, only 7 yards per game behind 2nd place. We also had a sea of long lasting injuries on some of our best run defenders (Keisel, Harrison, Woodley, Smith, Farrior, Worilds...). In 2010, we were 2 yards off an all-time NFL record in run defense, allowing 62 ypg. Would have had the record if our last game hadn't been against a team that couldn't even get a first down through the air so they ran the ball just to end their embarrassment faster... They allowed only one yard of 20 yards or more (24). In 2009, we finished 3rd in what was something of an off year for our team.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...sonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

But yeah, we could just cut him now and cross our fingers that someone will fall from the sky and everything will work out.

 

i think there are more then that. i don't think mclendon is all that special at the position. he's decent and that's about all. [/quote:1d9126oj]
Two or three guys that we could count on, then. Of course, there could be some guy out there none of us have heard of that will be a Hall of Famer, but we can't rely on that. I agree with you about McLendon, and that's part of my point. If we cut Hampton now, all we have is one guy who does alright as a third stringer. If we don't get a chance to draft one of the very few nose tackles in this draft that are expected to be good (especially be good right away! How many of those are there this year...?), then we will have McLendon and only McLendon, and possibly be totally screwed. And if anyone thinks some random late round flyer is likely to be better than Casey Hampton, they are crazy. Possible? Yes, anything's possible. Likely? No, not at all. And it's irresponsible to go into a season with one third-string NT and late draft pick who would be considered an overachiever if he ever gets to start at all. There are a couple of decent options (Chapman, Ta'amu), but they could easily be snapped up before we get the chance by one of the many teams now running a 3-4. And most people wouldn't even call NT our top priority, or even our second priority.

As for Hampton not being any good for the last three years, I don't really have any individual stats to support that, because he's a nose tackle and didn't have good stats when he was the best in the league. But there are team stats, and most people know that if your NT is not good, you do not have a good run defense, let alone a great one. Last year, in what many would consider to be his worst ever, we finished 8th in run defense, only 7 yards per game behind 2nd place. We also had a sea of long lasting injuries on some of our best run defenders (Keisel, Harrison, Woodley, Smith, Farrior, Worilds...). In 2010, we were 2 yards off an all-time NFL record in run defense, allowing 62 ypg. Would have had the record if our last game hadn't been against a team that couldn't even get a first down through the air so they ran the ball just to end their embarrassment faster... They allowed only one yard of 20 yards or more (24). In 2009, we finished 3rd in what was something of an off year for our team.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...sonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

But yeah, we could just cut him now and cross our fingers that someone will fall from the sky and everything will work out.[/quote:1d9126oj]
his knee injury. the first couple of games of last season, when the only guy that was still mending was harrison. teams have figured out with the zone blocking and cutting down casey from the backside how to immobilize him and our run D. if you remember, thats when casey started seeing the field less. if we kept that up , we would have been far from the top in run defense. houston and baltimore gashed us pretty good. yes it will be tough to do, but at some point we may just have to swallow hard and do it. last year was also the first year i ever remember the steelers carrying 3 NT's. we could do that again or we could know by the end of preseason if casey is truely still worth it.

there are alot of smaller school guys out there. there are also quite a few larger school guys out there that have just not played in a 3-4, but could learn the spot. the only reason there are not more is because most teams don't run a true 3-4. most colleges do however run a form of it though. casey on the 6 week PUP list could work in our favor this year.

by the way the steelers were at kitchen's pro day at kent state.

 

Agree with this. A NT in our system is a non glorious position and it often looks like he's doing nothing when in reality he's doing tons. There are no real individual stats one can point to but he is a major reason why this D has been consistently tops for years now.

Some argue he's been done for years because last year was his worse, but just a season prior to last no one ran on Pitt and Big snack is a major reason for it.

Is his time @ end? Sure, but I see no reason we can't use one of the top NTs from arguably the best D for another year and for millions less.

 

i think there are more then that. i don't think mclendon is all that special at the position. he's decent and that's about all. [/quote:hc5brzh9]
Two or three guys that we could count on, then. Of course, there could be some guy out there none of us have heard of that will be a Hall of Famer, but we can't rely on that. I agree with you about McLendon, and that's part of my point. If we cut Hampton now, all we have is one guy who does alright as a third stringer. If we don't get a chance to draft one of the very few nose tackles in this draft that are expected to be good (especially be good right away! How many of those are there this year...?), then we will have McLendon and only McLendon, and possibly be totally screwed. And if anyone thinks some random late round flyer is likely to be better than Casey Hampton, they are crazy. Possible? Yes, anything's possible. Likely? No, not at all. And it's irresponsible to go into a season with one third-string NT and late draft pick who would be considered an overachiever if he ever gets to start at all. There are a couple of decent options (Chapman, Ta'amu), but they could easily be snapped up before we get the chance by one of the many teams now running a 3-4. And most people wouldn't even call NT our top priority, or even our second priority.

As for Hampton not being any good for the last three years, I don't really have any individual stats to support that, because he's a nose tackle and didn't have good stats when he was the best in the league. But there are team stats, and most people know that if your NT is not good, you do not have a good run defense, let alone a great one. Last year, in what many would consider to be his worst ever, we finished 8th in run defense, only 7 yards per game behind 2nd place. We also had a sea of long lasting injuries on some of our best run defenders (Keisel, Harrison, Woodley, Smith, Farrior, Worilds...). In 2010, we were 2 yards off an all-time NFL record in run defense, allowing 62 ypg. Would have had the record if our last game hadn't been against a team that couldn't even get a first down through the air so they ran the ball just to end their embarrassment faster... They allowed only one yard of 20 yards or more (24). In 2009, we finished 3rd in what was something of an off year for our team.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...sonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

But yeah, we could just cut him now and cross our fingers that someone will fall from the sky and everything will work out.[/quote:hc5brzh9]
his knee injury. the first couple of games of last season, when the only guy that was still mending was harrison. teams have figured out with the zone blocking and cutting down casey from the backside how to immobilize him and our run D. if you remember, thats when casey started seeing the field less. if we kept that up , we would have been far from the top in run defense. houston and baltimore gashed us pretty good. yes it will be tough to do, but at some point we may just have to swallow hard and do it. last year was also the first year i ever remember the steelers carrying 3 NT's. we could do that again or we could know by the end of preseason if casey is truely still worth it.

there are alot of smaller school guys out there. there are also quite a few larger school guys out there that have just not played in a 3-4, but could learn the spot. the only reason there are not more is because most teams don't run a true 3-4. most colleges do however run a form of it though. casey on the 6 week PUP list could work in our favor this year.

by the way the steelers were at kitchen's pro day at kent state. [/quote:hc5brzh9]
Teams figured us out? We got gashed a couple times, like you said, and did extremely well against everyone else. I know the Ravens got Hampton week 1 with all those cuts, which as far as I'm concerned is legal only by way of loophole and is dangerous and unethical. But since they did figure us out, they must have done pretty well the second time around? Rice and Williams had 27 carries for 67 yards, less than 2.5 per carry. Hampton himself was a huge part of Baltimore's lack of success on the ground. Here's an excerpt from an article on that game:

"Still, Pittsburgh truly did dominate the early downs, for what it's worth. Safety Troy Polamalu played one of his best games of the year. Dick LeBeau had him lined up all over the field—in two-deep coverage, down in the box in run support, in tight man coverage against Baltimore's tight ends. Along with Polamalu, nose tackle Casey Hampton, who consistently blew up plays at the line of scrimmage, and inside linebacker Larry Foote, who led the team with six tackles, were instrumental in holding Ray Rice to 43 yards (2.4 ypc) after he lit them up in Week 1."

http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/pitt...steelers-vs-baltimore-ravens-afc-north-week-9

Yes, that is just one game, but I use it as an example because people here have actually used that same game as an example of Casey being useless against the run. They say Birk handled him, when nothing could be farther from the truth. It's like when someone tried to use the SF game as an example of Mendenhall playing poorly, when he actually played very well.

Below are the rushing totals allowed, and that team's average rushing yards for the season. The games in green we allowed fewer than they averaged, the games in red we allowed more.

Bal 170 - 125
Sea 31 - 110
Ind 97 - 100
Hou 180 - 153
Ten 66 - 90 - Hoke
Jac 107 - 123 - Hoke
Ari 70 - 102 - McLendon
NE 43 - 110
Bal 67 - 125
Cin 109 - 111
KC 90 - 118
Cin 104 - 111
Cle 98 - 96
SF 100 - 128
Stl 164 - 104
Cle 72 - 96

As you can see, 4 times we allowed more than the team's average. 12 times we allowed less. Often far less. Two of those good games were manned by Hoke and one by McLendon. But Hoke is long gone, and we agree we can't count on McLendon to be anything but a backup at this point. Hampton doesn't deserve all the credit for the good games or all the blame for the bad ones. Against New England, we played a lot of the game in nickel and dime. St. Louis only had 68 passing yards and 0 points. All they could do was run, and to a certain extent we let them (like allowing garbage passing yards in order to not get beaten deep). Also, their running game was much stronger than their low average, because Jackson missed so much of the year, and he's very good. Against Baltimore and Houston, our entire team played poorly. Hampton actually graded out decently in those games in my evaluations (but I did not penalize him for those chop plays). Was he completely destroying the offense, like he did the second time against Baltimore? No, not at all. But he wasn't getting pushed around or run right by either. In any case, looking at either the tape or those numbers, I don't see anything to support that teams have figured us out or cracked our code.

I'm not saying he didn't decline this year. But no matter how much you think he declined, the level of his play was not half as bad as everyone says. On his better days, he thwarted other teams' running attacks. On his worst days, he still wasn't the main problem! Will he play well this season, given another year of age and the injury? I don't know. Will this be his last year? Probably. But I wish people would stop making up crap about what has already happened. The tape is there, just watch it. And since the tape says he can still play well as of a couple months ago, and since we have NO replacement for him, and since it looks like he'll be available to start the season, or at least come in after 6 weeks, we'd be crazy to drop him now. We still need to draft his replacement this year. But since that will in all probability be a mid-rounder (2nd at the very highest), it would be irresponsible and detrimental to the whole team to simply assume a mid-round pick can perform as well as Casey Hampton, especially without Casey Hampton around to learn from. Miracles happen, but to count on one is just stupid. Even if whoever we get comes into camp and blows everyone away, by then our cap issues will have been addressed and we can decide whether it's worth the $5 million to mentor the kid or not.

 

don't forget hood was seeing some time at the nose too last year. a couple of other games teams were within a couple of yards of their average. the patriots threw it mostly. balt.II threw later in the game mostly. teams got on to that cutting casey and causing a pile up for our pursuit to get back across the line with a cutback runner. casey was not used near as much after that and it settled down a good bit with hoke and mclendon and hood. i'll bet casey saw alot less field time then in previous years, last year.

 

Baltimore had 27 carries and that's a game you're using as an example to explain away a low rushing total? 2.4 ypc is pretty good.

When Casey came back from injury, he was still the starting NT, and still played as much as ever when the base package was in. He was out when we were in subpackages like always, but it's not like he was being replaced by Hoke/McLendon. He was replaced with Keenan Lewis. His playing time was not reduced in favor of another lineman. It was only reduced by defensive scheme, like when we played the Patriots.

When did Hood play NT, aside from nickel/dime packages (when he is expected to be rushing the passer)? I don't remember seeing him in there at any other time.

 

i understand he was not replaced by a specific player. we ran alot more nickle and dime packages last year. we stopped the run with them too. look at who was making alot of the tackles last year on the team. safeties , corners, and lb'ers. timmons increased his tackles alot in the 2nd half of the year from his slow start. we seemed to work alot from 2 down d-lineman sets, thus taking casey off the field more often. hood was over center alot in those situations, not the base, but our base wasen't used as often. i think his time on the field will be evermore decreased again this year, not only because of his injury, but the base declining for coverage of an increase in the passing of the league. it's just a lessoning position to us.

 

Well in 2 seasons you would have the 20 to 30 that Hood would need.....Any Athlete can put on the weight if that's the plan simply change the diet and increase the weight with less reps in the weight room...

He has the frame and power would be his best attribute so it is worth it IMO.....

 

i understand he was not replaced by a specific player. we ran alot more nickle and dime packages last year. we stopped the run with them too. look at who was making alot of the tackles last year on the team. safeties , corners, and lb'ers. timmons increased his tackles alot in the 2nd half of the year from his slow start. we seemed to work alot from 2 down d-lineman sets, thus taking casey off the field more often. hood was over center alot in those situations, not the base, but our base wasen't used as often. i think his time on the field will be evermore decreased again this year, not only because of his injury, but the base declining for coverage of an increase in the passing of the league. it's just a lessoning position to us. [/quote:3ijavdmm]
That's my point. His decreased playing time has more to do with what offenses are attacking us with than it does his ability to stuff the run. Teams force us into sub packages with 3 and 4 WRs, and then either pass as expected, or run on us. They do it so they don't have to run on our base, because that's really hard! My point was that whether or not he can get it done in 2012 remains to be seen, but he was getting it done in 2011.