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Big Ben has spoiled you

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SteelHack, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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    Oct 21, 2011
    So I have seen many a thread bashing him. He is old, He is out of shape, HE STINKS.

    Maybe they are right..maybe he ia all those things.... but I am telling you... its not easy to find. THE GUY. They dont come around very often...and when they do..are you lucky enough to choose correctly?

    Here is a list of every top QB drafted since Ben....I deleted some late round guys just to shorten the list.. but I kept every name most might recognize ( like a Minshew 6th round)

    Tell me which ones you would have wanted...and then see where they ultimately were drafted

    2021 (to early to tell)
    1 Trevor Lawrence
    1 Zach Wilson
    1 Trey Lance
    1 Justin Fields
    1 Mac Jones
    2 Kyle Trask
    3 Kellen Mond
    3 Davis Mills
    4 Ian Book
    6 Sam Ehlinger

    2020 (to early to tell)
    1 Joe Burrow
    1 Tua Tagovailoa
    1 Justin Herbert
    1 Jordan Love
    2 Jalen Hurts

    2019
    1 Kyler Murray
    1 Daniel Jones
    1 Dwayne Haskins (we got him and half the people hate him)
    2 Drew Lock
    3 Will Grier
    6 Gardner Minshew

    2018
    1 Baker Mayfield
    1 Sam Darnold
    1 Josh Allen (was my fav prospect since Ben)
    1 Josh Rosen
    1 Lamar Jackson
    3 Mason Rudolph (we got him)

    2017
    1 Mitchell Trubisky
    1 Patrick Mahomes
    1 Deshaun Watson
    2 DeShone Kizer
    3 Davis Webb
    3 C.J. Beathard
    4 Joshua Dobbs (Again ours)

    2016
    1 Jared Goff
    1 Carson Wentz (would be #4 on my Qb crush list coming out)
    1 Paxton Lynch
    2 Christian Hackenberg
    3 Jacoby Brissett
    3 Cody Kessler
    4 Connor Cook
    4 Dak Prescott

    2015
    1 Jameis Winston
    1 Marcus Mariota
    3 Garrett Grayson
    3 Sean Mannion
    4 Bryce Petty
    5 Brett Hundley
    7 Trevor Siemian

    2014
    1 Blake Bortles
    1 Johnny Manziel
    1 Teddy Bridgewater
    2 Derek Carr
    2 Jimmy Garoppolo
    5 A.J. McCarron
    6 Zach Mettenberger

    2013
    1 EJ Manuel
    2 Geno Smith
    3 Mike Glennon
    4 Matt Barkley
    4 Ryan Nassib
    4 Tyler Wilson
    4 Landry Jones (We hate him)

    2012
    1 Andrew Luck
    1 Robert Griffin
    1 Ryan Tannehill
    1 Brandon Weeden
    2 Brock Osweiler
    3 Russell Wilson
    3 Nick Foles
    4 Kirk Cousins

    2011
    Supplemental draft Terrelle Pryor
    1 Cam Newton
    1 Jake Locker
    1 Blaine Gabbert
    1 Christian Ponder
    2 Andy Dalton
    2 Colin Kaepernick
    3 Ryan Mallett
    6 Tyrod Taylor

    2010
    1 Sam Bradford
    1 Tim Tebow
    2 Jimmy Clausen
    3 Colt McCoy

    2009
    1 Matthew Stafford
    1 Mark Sanchez
    1 Josh Freeman
    2 Pat White

    2008
    1 Matt Ryan
    1 Joe Flacco
    2 Brian Brohm
    2 Chad Henne
    3 Kevin O'Connell
    5 Dennis Dixon (Was here)
    5 Josh Johnson

    2007
    1 JaMarcus Russell
    1 Brady Quinn
    2 Kevin Kolb
    2 John Beck
    2 Drew Stanton
    3 Trent Edwards
    5 Troy Smith
    6 Jordan Palmer
    7 Tyler Thigpen

    2006
    1 Vince Young
    1 Matt Leinart
    1 Jay Cutler
    2 Kellen Clemens
    2 Tarvaris Jackson
    3 Charlie Whitehurst
    3 Brodie Croyle
    5 Omar Jacobs (we tried)
    6 Bruce Gradkowski (tried him too)

    2005
    1 Alex Smith
    1 Aaron Rodgers
    1 Jason Campbell
    3 Charlie Frye
    3 Andrew Walter
    3 David Greene
    4 Kyle Orton
    5 Dan Orlovsky
    6 Derek Anderson
    7 Matt Cassel
    7 Ryan Fitzpatrick

    2004
    1 Eli Manning
    1 Philip Rivers
    1 Ben Roethlisberger (IS A GOAT)
    1 J.P. Losman
    3 Matt Schaub


    What did you get? 10 guys...maybe 15 if you really tried....over 17 drafts since Eli,Rivers,and Ben...and maybe 15 guys (not counting the to new to tell kids)

    Even if you count the new kids and are just hoping they are great...20? Good to Great QBs in a league of 32 over 18 years?

    It ain't easy folks

    And for the record...my favorite QBs based off how good I felt they could be and how much I wanted them the year they came out

    1 BEN... didn't really care for ELI or Rivers.. they both proved me wrong

    2 Josh Allen...reminded me of Ben

    3 Justin Fields. Was incredibly acurate and can run like many of the new breed QB

    4 Carson Wentz. He was my favorite since Ben at that time. Jury is out, but certainly looks like just a guy

    5 Haskins. Rocket arm, mobile enough, To soon to tell, but has a big hill to climb

    So even patting my own back I am just 2 for 5...with 2 good.1 never played yet, and 2 guys trying to get into the conversation

    HACK
     
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  2. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Great research Hack and yes Ben has been great, we will miss him when he is gone. Im fine with running it back with Ben but I must say I wanted him to retire last offseason because of the way the season ended, I just wonder if his body can hold up to a 17 game season and playoffs at this stage. His legacy is assured no matter what happens, and I’d be stunned if he isn’t in Canton on the first ballot.

    Regarding the future I think the quality and preparedness of guys coming out is better than ever and there doesn’t need to be a twenty year drought between Ben and the next guy. I will qualify that by saying the next guy is unlikely to be as good as Ben, I understand that finding a HOF QB is rare. It is easier to find a serviceable QB like Derek Carr or Ryan Tannehill than ever before though.
     
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  3. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post!!

    The so called franchise QB is few and far between. I live in Eagle fandom and they say McNabb was theirs. That's 1 in all the SB years. Many franchises have never had the big time QB who won consistently for many years. Green Bay always comes to mind with Starr (early SB years) then Favre then Rodgers. Back to Back is rare. Imagine we get another Ben that would be another 15 seasons of winning and hope. (Tomlin still kicking ass too:) )

    Never a big fan of Ben off the field but that has zero effect on my life. Ben has kept the Steelers relevant and me having enjoyable NFL seasons.

    I am on the side that his party is over. I have no idea about college so no idea who is out there. I knew about Joe Burrow and Lawrence and would have liked one of them to take over. Not happening.

    It really is rare to have a QB like Ben. Pat fans will miss Brady and I hope they have a long ass wait for another. I do believe the AFC has some young guns who could become franchise QB's. Time will tell.
     
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  4. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    Jan 2, 2012


    Agree that Ben has spoiled us
    . I hope we don't go a long time like we did before Ben. Dread the the day we have to start with a new QB.






     
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  5. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    It’s not easy to find “the guy”, and even if you do it can fall apart. Both Wentz and Goff looked great for a while. Ben is a HoFer. They are rare. He ain’t one anymore, but he was once.

    I do have to laugh at posts that say “we’ll draft Bens replacement in ‘22” and everything will be fine. I guarantee you every 1st rounder on your list was a franchise savior. Most dont work out. It may take a long time to find “the guy”, maybe decades.
     
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  6. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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    I think the Steelers have 2 serviceable guys in Mason and Haskins. KORDELL was serviceable...People hate him.

    Steeler QBs are measured by one thing only.. and that Lombardi Trophies.

    I think the Ben wore down narrative is over blown... not that he didn't start to.. but the effect of it is being over blown

    If anything I think the defense wore down.

    In the first 11 games the defense gave up 23 points or more 3 times

    In the last 6 games including playoffs they gave up 23 or more all 6 times

    Bens stats in the last 5 games (Mason played one)

    156/245 1504 yards. 12 TD 8 INT
    QBR 82.44

    Last 2 threw for 842 yards 7 TD 4 INT
    QBR 92.46

    The defense gave up 72 points to the Browns the last 2 games (65 if you take away the snap into endzone)

    778 yards and 8 TDs against Cleveland to end the year.

    So the narrative is last 2 games
    CLEVELAND 778 YARDS 8 TD. THERE IS A NEW KING OF THE NORTH

    BEN 842 YARDS 7 TD WORE DOWN OLD MAN

    HACK
     
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  7. 4124life

    4124life Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t seen much “bashing” of Ben here. He’s been critiqued for the way he finished the season and rightfully so. Most here want him to take better care of himself and take the game more serious which he seems to have been doing lately.
    Hope he comes ready this season and goes on a tear.
     
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  8. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    No doubt the defence wore down due to injury but that’s not the whole story of why they went 1-5 in the last six games.

    There were games and times when the offence struggled mightily to move the ball, Ben was clearly carrying some sort of injury, supposedly he has arthritic knees. Dallas, Washington, Cincinnati, Baltimore, even when they won during the second half of the season the offence was just plain bad. OLine and other issues like drops certainly contributed to that, I am not for a second saying it is all on Ben.

    The defence was carrying the team earlier in the year if we are honest, they had big stops in several games to seal wins, but it went a little off the rails on both sides of the ball later in the season

    Happy to see how it plays out this year and will be fully behind the team and Ben as always.

    It is a pity he didn’t win another Super Bowl with that Killer B team. I believe they were good enough in 2016-17 but it didn’t work out. Chance is gone now for Ben, I don’t think this current team is anywhere near SuperBowl caliber unless they have an injury free season and multiple players have career years. Even then it’s a stretch to imagine Ben lifting the Lombardi next February
     
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  9. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't they have Josh Johnson too?
     
  10. SGSteeler

    SGSteeler Well-Known Member

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    Allen and Watson were probably my favorites of that list. Justin Herbert is up there too. There are only a few I would've wanted anyways. Dak is the biggest steal. Derek Carr in round 2. Most of the others wouldn't have been available at the time of our picks anyways.
     
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  11. SpeedyMikeWallace

    SpeedyMikeWallace Well-Known Member

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    The problem for quarterbacks is this:

    If they're drafted early in the first round, chances are they're going to a bad team or bad organization. Were they overvalued because a new regime is looking for "their guy"? Is he a good player being ruined by bad coaching in a bad organization? Is he struggling because there's no talent around him? Or is he actually just a flop?

    In the case of not being an early first round pick, if they're a QB being taken by a decent team, are they going to be given a legitimate opportunity? Or are they going to be buried behind the starter the team has already married itself to? What if they show progress but the team ends up being bad and put in a position to draft another QB, are they going to be evaluated honestly or shown the door to avoid a QB controversy/shield the new investment?

    These are a few of many questions that make it often difficult to assess QBs and what went wrong when they don't pan out.

    I think a lot of the time, quarterbacks that could have been good are ruined by circumstances beyond their control, but we'll never know because we can only see what did happen, not what could have been.
     
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  12. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    Ben underachieved. Badly.

    He could have done a lot more if he had tried as hard as he was paid. He had the talent.

    He didn’t use it. Shame on him. Most of us here wish we had been given that god given talent. Most of us would have given our best. He didn’t.

    Im not spoiled. I’m pissed.
     
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  13. The Sodfather

    The Sodfather Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post, Hack. Some of us were rough on Ben, no doubt. Truth be told, I wouldn't have traded him for any QB, including Brady. He has made some very memorable plays through the years. I also hate that because of his size and the fact that he doesn't whine, the league officials have let some questionable hits against him go unpunished even as they had become more cognizant about injured QB's in particular and concussions in general.
     
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  14. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    Big Ben hasn't spoiled me I remember

    Bubby Brister, Neil O"Donnell, Tomzak, Stewart, Kent Graham, Stewart, Tommy Maddox,

    Get his Gold Jacket ready.
     
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  15. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I didn’t want us to draft ANY QB early until Ben started to hint at retirement in 2018. Before 2018 I didn’t focus on QBs, though there were some that I felt strongly would be special like Luck (duh), Watson, Ryan, Brady Quinn (oops) and Matt Leinart (double oops). In 2018 I liked Mayfield the best, and early in the process I even thought he’d drop to us in the 1st because of his height. I also liked Darnold (obviously I gave too much weight to his freshman year). I loved Josh Allen’s potential, but I felt he was at best 50/50 to achieve it. I didn’t like anyone in 2019, and in 2020 I loved Burrow and thought that Tua could be solid as well. For 2021 I liked Mac Jones and Justin Fields more than the 3 guys drafted ahead of them.

    HACK, you’re absolutely right that we’re spoiled by Ben. However, Father Time always wins in the end, and at some point he will no longer be a capable NFL starting QB. Ben faltered big time down the stretch last season. It wasn’t just the defense, it was also Ben’s inability to consistently threaten defenses down the field. During the stretch run he played a single half of football where he played like a starting QB. In the playoff game he was terrible until the game was out of hand. Both games it looked suspiciously like he got medicated at halftime to allow him to push though pain. It has been acknowledged that he had knee issues down the stretch. Whether the limiting injury was acute or a chronic injury that couldn’t hold up to a full NFL season is not certain (at least not publicly). I personally think it’s less than 50/50 that he holds up for a 17 game regular season without faltering again. I hope I’m wrong.
     
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  16. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I think the lack of running game last season hurt Ben down the stretch, they couldn't even pick up short yardage plays with the run, he had to throw 40-50 times to give the team a chance to win. Once defenses sat on their routes in the short passing game, Fichtner made no adjustments :facepalm:.
     
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  17. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    carson strong. nevada

    brock purdy. iowa st.

    :cool:
     
  18. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    I have no quarrel with Ben. It's popcorn who I have a problem with.
     
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  19. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Bust, and Bust. LoL.
    J/K
     
  20. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Is it Tomlin's fault Ben threw 4 ints against Cleveland :facepalm:?
     
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  21. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    sure, why not?:cool:
     
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  22. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I guess it was Cowher's fault that O'Donnell threw those ints against Dallas in the Super Bowl :facepalm:.
     
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  23. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    You don't have 2 tell Me. I been preaching this(Ben) ,and how hard it is 2 get a Qb since I've been on this board. Nobody is a big Ben apologist than I. LoL.
     
  24. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    A QB who can’t fully step into throws and throw downfield allows the defense to play tighter.
     
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  25. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Or a team that finishes last in rushing, allows defenses to play tighter :hehehe:.
     
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