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Bens Successor Draft Thread

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by Blast Furnace, May 8, 2021.

Page 14 of 16

steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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Nov 14, 2011
Jball said: ↑

I get all kinds of different data on Ridder's arm. A lot of sources say his arm is average at best. Others say he has a canon. I don't know how sources can be so divided on a guy's arm strength?

Anybody have an opinion?
Click to expand...

I hear a lot about Ridder's accuracy issues.

steelersrule6, Apr 14, 2022

steelersrule6, Apr 14, 2022

#326
- Agree x 1
S.T.D Well-Known Member

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Steel_Elvis said: ↑

I read a rumor that we have been laying the groundwork to do just that. A trade with the Giants to move up to 5.
Click to expand...

No way !!!!
We can't be that stupid.
I won't believe it till I see it.

S.T.D, Apr 14, 2022

S.T.D, Apr 14, 2022

#327
S.T.D Well-Known Member

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Steel_Elvis said: ↑

I am firmly against a move like this as well. I think it’s like having a million dollars, and spending it all on lottery tickets.
Click to expand...

Especially when You could wait, and have those same lottery ticket for half price.

S.T.D, Apr 14, 2022

S.T.D, Apr 14, 2022

#328
Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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S.T.D said: ↑

No way !!!!
We can't be that stupid.
I won't believe it till I see it.
Click to expand...

I truly believe that it’s a possibility. With the success of a handful of the great athletes coming into the league at the QB position, all it takes is a little bit of arrogance to fall in love with a player’s physical gifts and think “we can fix all of his issues.”

Steel_Elvis, Apr 14, 2022

Steel_Elvis, Apr 14, 2022

#329
- Like x 1
S.T.D Well-Known Member

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Steel_Elvis said: ↑

I truly believe that it’s a possibility. With the success of a handful of the great athletes coming into the league at the QB position, all it takes is a little bit of arrogance to fall in love with a player’s physical gifts and think “we can fix all of his issues.”
Click to expand...

I truly hope You are wrong.

S.T.D, Apr 14, 2022

S.T.D, Apr 14, 2022

#330
- Agree x 1
Animus Well-Known Member

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https://www.audacy.com/937thefan/sp...m=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=KDKA-FM

So one team is not grading a single QB in the draft as a first round pick. That gives me confidence that the team's themselves aren't grading these guys as high as Shefter is. I'm sure some teams might be grading a couple as 1st rounders.

Animus, Apr 15, 2022

Animus, Apr 15, 2022

#331
- Winner x 1
Hanratty#5 Well-Known Member

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Todd McShay's 2 round mock has the Steelers taking Malik Willis in the first and Jaquan Brisker in the second.

Hanratty#5, Apr 15, 2022

Hanratty#5, Apr 15, 2022

#332
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Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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Animus said: ↑

https://www.audacy.com/937thefan/sports/at-least-one-team-doesnt-have-first-round-grade-for-any-qb?utm_campaign=www.audacy.com%2F937thefan&utm_content=1650033933&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=KDKA-FM

So one team is not grading a single QB in the draft as a first round pick. That gives me confidence that the team's themselves aren't grading these guys as high as Shefter is. I'm sure some teams might be grading a couple as 1st rounders.
Click to expand...

That doesn’t mean teams won’t still draft them in the first. The need and position is too great. Teams always overdraft QB’s.

Blast Furnace, Apr 15, 2022

Blast Furnace, Apr 15, 2022

#333
- Agree x 2
Animus Well-Known Member

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Blast Furnace said: ↑

That doesn’t mean teams won’t still draft them in the first. The need and position is too great. Teams always overdraft QB’s.
Click to expand...

I agree. Precisely why I've been so vehement regarding the topic. I just don't want the Steelers to be reaching for a dud. I think the 5th year option opened the door for teams reaching too high for QBs they could get in the 2nd or 3rd as well.

Animus, Apr 15, 2022

Animus, Apr 15, 2022

#334
- Agree x 1
Brice Well-Known Member

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Carson Strong would be an excellent replacement if we were still running Ben's old vertical offense.

Do they try to sneak him in the backdoor on Day 3 of the draft like they did with his pro day? While all eyes were on Tomlin and Colbert at Pitts pro day, Sullivan snuck over to Nevada to check out Carson.

Link to the Carson Strong Show.
https://nevadasportsnet.com/news/re...-day-waiting-for-the-draft-and-rollercoasters

Last edited: Apr 15, 2022

Brice, Apr 15, 2022

Brice, Apr 15, 2022

#335
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S.T.D Well-Known Member

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Hanratty#5 said: ↑

Todd McShay's 2 round mock has the Steelers taking Malik Willis in the first and Jaquan Brisker in the second.
Click to expand...

1st =
2nd =

S.T.D, Apr 15, 2022

S.T.D, Apr 15, 2022

#336
- Agree x 1
S.T.D Well-Known Member

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Blast Furnace said: ↑

That doesn’t mean teams won’t still draft them in the first. The need and position is too great. Teams always overdraft QB’s.
Click to expand...

We shouldn't be one of those teams.

S.T.D, Apr 15, 2022

S.T.D, Apr 15, 2022

#337
- Like x 2
Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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Steel_Elvis said: ↑

I read a rumor that we have been laying the groundwork to do just that. A trade with the Giants to move up to 5.
Click to expand...

If this happens I would be devastated, The talent is not there to take a gamble of this magnitude. In my over 50 years of watching
the Steelers. I can't imagine it. The Rooney's are not like some NFL owners. What they have accomplished in FA so far they just need to build off of it
have a good responsible draft. They will be competitive with AFC teams and if they can make it to playoffs, anything can happen.

Wardismvp, Apr 16, 2022

Wardismvp, Apr 16, 2022

#338
- Agree x 1
Jball Well-Known Member

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Breakdown of all the QB's by scouts an GM's. About what I expected.

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-pro-execs-scouts-coaches-break-down-the-qb-class

Jball, Apr 22, 2022

Jball, Apr 22, 2022

#339
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Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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Jball said: ↑

Breakdown of all the QB's by scouts an GM's. About what I expected.

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-pro-execs-scouts-coaches-break-down-the-qb-class
Click to expand...

There are a lot of quotes in there about all of the top 7 QBs that I agree with, though I don’t agree with the author’s rankings.

For Willis I think the statements about his athleticism and arm are proven by the film, but so are the comments about being “boom or bust” and the one by an NFL guy who said that there’s not much on tape that they would actually ask him to do. Another one that really jumped out was the comment that his career could go many different directions. He could be special, or he could be a faster Taysom Hill.

2. I feel like the comments on Pickett being the most pro ready but having very little upside are dead on. In my view he’s a lower tier starter early in his career, but probably maxes out at a Kirk Cousins level - best case. That’s a guy who is late first round draftable, but not exciting.

3. The comments on Corral - good and bad - fit what I’ve seen on tape. He’s a effortless passer, but the offense was gimmicky and he had occasional bouts of inaccuracy.

4. I still like Howell, and some of the NFL guys quoted seem to as well. I like that it was pointed out that he’s the dead opposite of Mayfield. Calm, collected and low key. His deep ball is terrific. I can’t put too much emphasis on his 2021 performance. He was under duress 1-2 seconds after the snap constantly. Not only were the linemen mostly lousy, but the assignments had him dealing with free rushers all the time. It was ridiculous to watch that wonky offense.

5. Ridder… I don’t know what to say. His tape is so variable. Sometimes he looks competent, but others he looks clueless as all hell. The note that he gets his shoulders parallel to the line of scrimmage when pressured resonated with me. I saw it frequently on tape. You’re not in a good position to throw if your shoulders are parallel to the line.

6. Strong may be the best passer of the bunch, but his lack of mobility and the knee condition are big issues. He’s as pure of a pocket passer as you can get, and nobody can say for sure if his knee will allow him to have much of a career. It could be good for 15 years or cause problems annually until it pushes him out of the league. If we weren’t so seemingly fixated on a mobile QB, I could see him being worth the risk starting in the 3rd or 4th round. He can sling it.

These are not my rankings, and I don’t think this list is the same order as the list in the article.

Steel_Elvis, Apr 22, 2022

Steel_Elvis, Apr 22, 2022

#340
- Like x 2
S.T.D Well-Known Member

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Steel_Elvis said: ↑

There are a lot of quotes in there about all of the top 7 QBs that I agree with, though I don’t agree with the author’s rankings.

For Willis I think the statements about his athleticism and arm are proven by the film, but so are the comments about being “boom or bust” and the one by an NFL guy who said that there’s not much on tape that they would actually ask him to do. Another one that really jumped out was the comment that his career could go many different directions. He could be special, or he could be a faster Taysom Hill.

2. I feel like the comments on Pickett being the most pro ready but having very little upside are dead on. In my view he’s a lower tier starter early in his career, but probably maxes out at a Kirk Cousins level - best case. That’s a guy who is late first round draftable, but not exciting.

3. The comments on Corral - good and bad - fit what I’ve seen on tape. He’s a effortless passer, but the offense was gimmicky and he had occasional bouts of inaccuracy.

4. I still like Howell, and some of the NFL guys quoted seem to as well. I like that it was pointed out that he’s the dead opposite of Mayfield. Calm, collected and low key. His deep ball is terrific. I can’t put too much emphasis on his 2021 performance. He was under duress 1-2 seconds after the snap constantly. Not only were the linemen mostly lousy, but the assignments had him dealing with free rushers all the time. It was ridiculous to watch that wonky offense.

5. Ridder… I don’t know what to say. His tape is so variable. Sometimes he looks competent, but others he looks clueless as all hell. The note that he gets his shoulders parallel to the line of scrimmage when pressured resonated with me. I saw it frequently on tape. You’re not in a good position to throw if your shoulders are parallel to the line.

6. Strong may be the best passer of the bunch, but his lack of mobility and the knee condition are big issues. He’s as pure of a pocket passer as you can get, and nobody can say for sure if his knee will allow him to have much of a career. It could be good for 15 years or cause problems annually until it pushes him out of the league. If we weren’t so seemingly fixated on a mobile QB, I could see him being worth the risk starting in the 3rd or 4th round. He can sling it.

These are not my rankings, and I don’t think this list is the same order as the list in the article.
Click to expand...

IMO....nobody is worth a 1st round, but Howell is My 1st pick in the 2nd if forced 2 take a Qb, and rounding it up with Cole Kelley in the 5th. I would take Strong, but the knee really bothers Me. Some Qbs never get over the fear of that knee.

S.T.D, Apr 22, 2022

S.T.D, Apr 22, 2022

#341
- Like x 1
Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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Steel_Elvis said: ↑

There are a lot of quotes in there about all of the top 7 QBs that I agree with, though I don’t agree with the author’s rankings.

For Willis I think the statements about his athleticism and arm are proven by the film, but so are the comments about being “boom or bust” and the one by an NFL guy who said that there’s not much on tape that they would actually ask him to do. Another one that really jumped out was the comment that his career could go many different directions. He could be special, or he could be a faster Taysom Hill.

2. I feel like the comments on Pickett being the most pro ready but having very little upside are dead on. In my view he’s a lower tier starter early in his career, but probably maxes out at a Kirk Cousins level - best case. That’s a guy who is late first round draftable, but not exciting.

3. The comments on Corral - good and bad - fit what I’ve seen on tape. He’s a effortless passer, but the offense was gimmicky and he had occasional bouts of inaccuracy.

4. I still like Howell, and some of the NFL guys quoted seem to as well. I like that it was pointed out that he’s the dead opposite of Mayfield. Calm, collected and low key. His deep ball is terrific. I can’t put too much emphasis on his 2021 performance. He was under duress 1-2 seconds after the snap constantly. Not only were the linemen mostly lousy, but the assignments had him dealing with free rushers all the time. It was ridiculous to watch that wonky offense.

5. Ridder… I don’t know what to say. His tape is so variable. Sometimes he looks competent, but others he looks clueless as all hell. The note that he gets his shoulders parallel to the line of scrimmage when pressured resonated with me. I saw it frequently on tape. You’re not in a good position to throw if your shoulders are parallel to the line.

6. Strong may be the best passer of the bunch, but his lack of mobility and the knee condition are big issues. He’s as pure of a pocket passer as you can get, and nobody can say for sure if his knee will allow him to have much of a career. It could be good for 15 years or cause problems annually until it pushes him out of the league. If we weren’t so seemingly fixated on a mobile QB, I could see him being worth the risk starting in the 3rd or 4th round. He can sling it.

These are not my rankings, and I don’t think this list is the same order as the list in the article.
Click to expand...

That is a good take on Howell. I really like his attitude and toughness. I just hope he can stop trying to run over people once he gets to the pros. I would be very happy with him in the second round.

Formerscribe, Apr 22, 2022

Formerscribe, Apr 22, 2022

#342
- Like x 1
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Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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Formerscribe said: ↑

That is a good take on Howell. I really like his attitude and toughness. I just hope he can stop trying to run over people once he gets to the pros. I would be very happy with him in the second round.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I’d be fine with it if we took him at #20. There’s a ton to like on film from 2019 and 2020, and some good stuff in 2021. He also played better the second half of the season in 2021. He just really struggled out of the gate in 2021 with very little talent around him. I think that people downgrading him for his play in 2021 need to really dig into the tape and see just how often he was put into no win situations by the blocking scheme and poor play up front. It was a constant problem. Anyone looking at his 9 interceptions in 2021 should watch the play by play vs. Va Tech in last year’s opener. IMO only 1 of the 3 was on him. I also like that he came in as a true freshman and lit it up. The moments in the NFL won’t be too big for him emotionally. I know some folks like to compare him to Mayfield because they kind of look alike on the field, but his game seems a lot more like a bigger, slower Russell Wilson. Even if the Mayfield comp were accurate, if you could get Mayfield’s talent with a calmer, more rational demeanor, isn’t that worth pick #20?

Steel_Elvis, Apr 23, 2022

Steel_Elvis, Apr 23, 2022

#343
- Like x 1
Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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Oct 26, 2011
I really have no idea what the Steelers will do,I do think they will get a QB though,
how and what round they do it is the only question I have. I hope they have done their homework.We still have weaknesses on both sides of the ball. I hope they address these.I can't believe that Seattle will not take Willis, I am also weary of what Atlanta and Detroit will do
at the end of first or second round? Anybody else have any thoughts?

Last edited: Apr 23, 2022

Wardismvp, Apr 23, 2022

Wardismvp, Apr 23, 2022

#344
- Like x 1
Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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Wardismvp said: ↑

I really have no idea what the Steelers will do,I do think they will get a QB though,
how and what round they do it is the only question I have. I hope they have done their homework.We still have weaknesses on both sides of the ball. I hope they address these.I can't believe that Seattle will not take Willis, I am also weary of what Atlanta and Detroit will do
at the end of first or second round? Anybody else have any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I don’t think Seattle will have a chance at Willis unless they trade up very high.

Steel_Elvis, Apr 23, 2022

Steel_Elvis, Apr 23, 2022

#345
Hanratty#5 Well-Known Member

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Apr 20, 2019
Steel_Elvis said: ↑

Honestly, I’d be fine with it if we took him at #20. There’s a ton to like on film from 2019 and 2020, and some good stuff in 2021. He also played better the second half of the season in 2021. He just really struggled out of the gate in 2021 with very little talent around him. I think that people downgrading him for his play in 2021 need to really dig into the tape and see just how often he was put into no win situations by the blocking scheme and poor play up front. It was a constant problem. Anyone looking at his 9 interceptions in 2021 should watch the play by play vs. Va Tech in last year’s opener. IMO only 1 of the 3 was on him. I also like that he came in as a true freshman and lit it up. The moments in the NFL won’t be too big for him emotionally. I know some folks like to compare him to Mayfield because they kind of look alike on the field, but his game seems a lot more like a bigger, slower Russell Wilson. Even if the Mayfield comp were accurate, if you could get Mayfield’s talent with a calmer, more rational demeanor, isn’t that worth pick #20?
Click to expand...

In the game against Pitt, Pickett led the Panthers out to a big lead around 31-10. But then it rained the whole second half and as Pickett fizzled out, Howell caught fire and forced the game into OT. Pickett did make a great pass in OT to win the game but I came away impressed with Howells performance.

Hanratty#5, Apr 23, 2022

Hanratty#5, Apr 23, 2022

#346
- Like x 1
- Agree x 1
Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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Steel_Elvis said: ↑

Honestly, I’d be fine with it if we took him at #20. There’s a ton to like on film from 2019 and 2020, and some good stuff in 2021. He also played better the second half of the season in 2021. He just really struggled out of the gate in 2021 with very little talent around him. I think that people downgrading him for his play in 2021 need to really dig into the tape and see just how often he was put into no win situations by the blocking scheme and poor play up front. It was a constant problem. Anyone looking at his 9 interceptions in 2021 should watch the play by play vs. Va Tech in last year’s opener. IMO only 1 of the 3 was on him. I also like that he came in as a true freshman and lit it up. The moments in the NFL won’t be too big for him emotionally. I know some folks like to compare him to Mayfield because they kind of look alike on the field, but his game seems a lot more like a bigger, slower Russell Wilson. Even if the Mayfield comp were accurate, if you could get Mayfield’s talent with a calmer, more rational demeanor, isn’t that worth pick #20?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't absolutely hate the pick. I've even gotten to the point that I wouldn't despise it if they chose Willis at 20, though I would disagree with it and I would really hate it if they traded up for him.

So much of Howell's game in 2021 was built around taking off and running and that worries me a bit. He could get away with trying to run guys over in college. He even did it quite a bit. I just don't want to see a quarterback doing that in the NFL except in the most desperate of situations.

Formerscribe, Apr 23, 2022

Formerscribe, Apr 23, 2022

#347
- Agree x 1
Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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Formerscribe said: ↑

I wouldn't absolutely hate the pick. I've even gotten to the point that I wouldn't despise it if they chose Willis at 20, though I would disagree with it and I would really hate it if they traded up for him.

So much of Howell's game in 2021 was built around taking off and running and that worries me a bit. He could get away with trying to run guys over in college. He even did it quite a bit. I just don't want to see a quarterback doing that in the NFL except in the most desperate of situations.
Click to expand...

On Willis, I am actually in the same place where I wouldn’t hate taking him at #20 because of the upside, and because I think we would be one of the few teams who would be patient with him and let him develop before giving up. @Blast Furnace will like that and @S.T.D will call me a traitor to the cause. I would absolutely not be happy if we trade up for him, especially at the cost of a future 1st rounder (or more).

On Howell last year, the frequent running felt to me like “let’s do anything that can possibly work” desperation. Not so much an indication of what to expect at the next level. He is a tough dude though.

Steel_Elvis, Apr 23, 2022

Steel_Elvis, Apr 23, 2022

#348
- Like x 1
- Hilarious x 1
S.T.D Well-Known Member

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Dec 23, 2020

Steel_Elvis said: ↑

Honestly, I’d be fine with it if we took him at #20. There’s a ton to like on film from 2019 and 2020, and some good stuff in 2021. He also played better the second half of the season in 2021. He just really struggled out of the gate in 2021 with very little talent around him. I think that people downgrading him for his play in 2021 need to really dig into the tape and see just how often he was put into no win situations by the blocking scheme and poor play up front. It was a constant problem. Anyone looking at his 9 interceptions in 2021 should watch the play by play vs. Va Tech in last year’s opener. IMO only 1 of the 3 was on him. I also like that he came in as a true freshman and lit it up. The moments in the NFL won’t be too big for him emotionally. I know some folks like to compare him to Mayfield because they kind of look alike on the field, but his game seems a lot more like a bigger, slower Russell Wilson. Even if the Mayfield comp were accurate, if you could get Mayfield’s talent with a calmer, more rational demeanor, isn’t that worth pick #20?
Click to expand...

No, but a 2nd round pick yes. I really really never saw what others say they seen in Baker. Always thought He was a 2nd round pick.

S.T.D, Apr 23, 2022

S.T.D, Apr 23, 2022

#349
S.T.D Well-Known Member

30,176

7,971

Dec 23, 2020

Steel_Elvis said: ↑

On Willis, I am actually in the same place where I wouldn’t hate taking him at #20 because of the upside, and because I think we would be one of the few teams who would be patient with him and let him develop before giving up. @Blast Furnace will like that and @S.T.D will call me a traitor to the cause. I would absolutely not be happy if we trade up for him, especially at the cost of a future 1st rounder (or more).

On Howell last year, the frequent running felt to me like “let’s do anything that can possibly work” desperation. Not so much an indication of what to expect at the next level. He is a tough dude though.
Click to expand...

Trader
Again....I Love a Qb that moves around, and buys time 2 look down field, or runs for a easy 1st down.....I can't stand a Qb that everytime something doesn't look right takes off....if You look at a lot of the tape ....You will see someone open....Yet the Qb doesn't, and runs.....I promise You Wrs hate this. There is a reason after Wrs left Cam,and Vick (I only bring up their names because they are the biggest named Qbs that did this) ..they talked about this, and why the ravens can't get FA Wrs.
This is not something they stop doing 97% of the time.
Really I can only think of 2 Qbs ever that were like that ,and changed.....S. Young( took him forever), and Steve McNair(believeMcNair injuries helped that).
Maybe they have 2 have a 1st name Steve.
It's just hard 2 get someone that has been doing that since Youth, and expect them 2 change before their 1st contract is over, and teams are done with them.

S.T.D, Apr 23, 2022

S.T.D, Apr 23, 2022

#350

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