Ben would not like a coach getting in his face

If Haley gets in VETERAN QB Ben's face he needs to be sent packing and grow up. They need to work together. Ben is not a kid, and he IS good.

Ben wins, and he has been winning with a bad o-line and bad running game. Haley needs to fix that and collect Lombardi's.

I doubt there will be any trouble or drama. Both Ben and Haley will make mistakes. Ben will admit to his AS HE DOES, and I hope Haley will too.

 

I know that Tomlin Era and others don't like to hear this, but I'm kind of looking forward to that first "animated" discussion that Haley and Ben have on the sidelines. If Bill O'Brien can get in the face of arguably the best QB of our era, then Ben should not be immune to a little, let's call it, passionate criticism on the sidelines. When BA and Ben had their little chummy chats on the sidelines it looked like they were talking about who was going to be making dinner reservations for the evening or where they had their next vacation planned together.
(Fire away, Tomlin Era.)

 

Should have asked this question earlier... what player would like a coach getting in their face?

 

JackAttack you are a hilarious and jolly good fella! Tomlin Era is also cool btw. I really just hope that Haley will help Ben to make better decisions. With BA it just seemed like he never held anyone accountable. I just don't see Haley as a guy that would say "you know what Ben Heath was wide open and would have had a first down but if you would just rather throw in to double coverage and have Ed Reed take one the other way for 6 then that is cool. Ya know I wouldn't want to offend you by telling you what a bad decision that is."

 

Actually I don't think there will be a problem. Hayley is a hometown kid. He is from Midway

 

I really don't care if they're playing pictionary, as long as there's some sensible strategic discussion going on.

I'm personally hoping that Haley has numerous ways of communicating with his players, and he chooses the appropriate one at the right time. I'm sure there'll be some early hiccups. But this idea that for players to play well they have to be shouted at is just... bizarre.

 

Thigpen, I don't know how old you are or if you ever had the opportunity to see the Steelers of the 70s, but believe me there were some animated discussions that took place on the sidelines at times. Bradshaw used to drive Noll absolutely crazy at times with some of his shenanigans on the field. Many of them kind of remind you of the things Ben does today i.e. trying to force the ball into double coverage when your checkdown is wide open, etc. A little yelling on the sidelines never hurt anybody. I think Bradshaw benefitted from Noll getting in his face from time to time and believe me, Ben will survive if Haley gets a little animated with him when he does something stupid. What's unacceptable is allowing bad decisions on the football field to go unchallenged and I believe BA (and ultimately, Tomllin) have been guilty of this throughout Ben's career. As a result, Ben's career growth has been stunted. Haley will be good for Ben's career, mark it down.

 

Once again I agree 100% with JackAttack. If Todd Haley can put a little discipline in Ben I'm all about it!

 

I didn't say that coaches should never get animated - rather, that some people here seem to think that unless a coach is screaming and shouting, they're not doing their job. As I said, if a coach only has one level of communication - shouting in someone's face - then that isn't a good coach. That doesn't mean that sometimes they're not going to shout in someone's face. But if it isn't effective, then there's no point in doing it.

I agree that it often seemed that BA would let Ben have his way too much; but what I'd like to see is Haley using our player's talent being used as best it can be.

PS - started watching the Steelers in the 80's, sadly - didn't get NFL on tv over here in the UK until 1983ish.

 

My prediction: Haley will be yelling at everyone but Ben. We have a young crew at WR, young crew at RB, a struggling OL and a veteran QB. They need to work together to maximize the potential of the younger guys. I also believe that Haley was humbled with his failure in KC and has probably realized that if he has another experience like KC he is out of the NFL. Contrary to some opinions, I believe Ben would not react well to tough love. I think he has a fragile ego, which is why BA treated him with kid gloves. Haley has a tough job on his hands - he needs to take more control of the offense and Ben without undercutting him. Very fine line to walk.

 

Jack, you keep clinging to that ONE instance where Brady got yelled at on the sidelines. That's one time in how many years Brady has been playing? And I''ve also explained before that Bradys OC only got in his face AFTER Tom tried to blame the WR for his screw up. Had Tom Tom kept his mouth shut, you never would have seen that display. If Haley only gets in Bens face once then fine, no big deal. But I get the impression that alot of people here want to see Haley yelling at Ben every time he extends a play. You have to know your personnel, some heated arguments from time to time is no big deal but if Haley is chewing Ben out all the time, I think it will be detrimental to the team. I think Ben can handle some tough love but now an exuberant amount.

@Blount, lol, thanks man :thumbsup:[/quote:38ue5d5k]


Let me clarify, I don't want every game to be a shouting match between Haley and Ben, I think that would be counterproductive. But I happen to be of the mindset that Ben has been coddled by BA AND BY TOMLIN for his entire career and as a result, he has not lived up to his true potential. I believe Ben has what it takes to be a great QB, one of the truly elite QBs in the league along the same lines as Manning, Brady and Brees. The fact of the matter is that he's not there yet and BA and Tomlin have stunted his growth. I'm excited about Haley as the OC not because I'm necessarily looking forward to Haley yelling and screaming at Ben but because I believe he is the type of coach that can motivate Ben to reach way down deep inside and pull the best out of himself. Not only the best physically, but the best mentally. If he responds to Haley the way I believe he will, he will finally reach that elite level that has thus far eluded him.

And by the way, read above. Blount said that once again he agrees with me 100%

 

yea, yea, tom tom and his OC got in a yelling match. tom tom also knows more about the team and the offense then his OC ever will. tom tom also knows he will be on the team long after any OC will be. much like he is now. tom tom rules the roost in NE make no mistake about that.

 

Isn't that the exact kind of arrogance that is a problem? Tom tom was wrong, but with logic like that he's always right. You go blaming your teammates for your mistake, you deserve to get yelled at.

Here's a story. 17 seconds left in the half, we're on the 20 yard line, no timeouts. Here are the correct options, that any moronic NFL commentator could tell you: pass into the end zone, pass to the sidelines, or throw it away. You could throw a very fast pass in the middle of the field folllowed by a spike, BUT that doesn't really do you any good because it only makes a 35 yard FG a little shorter, and you risk not getting the FG attempt at all. And with 17 seconds, that play has to be fast. So what does Ben do? He takes the snap, pump fakes, runs around awhile, pump fakes again, waits for the defenders to close on him, and dumps a 3 yard pass to Mewelde Moore over the middle. Moore runs for 5 yards or so and gets tackled. We do not get the spike off in time and the half ends with no points produced.

Let's assign blame -- Moore could not get to the sideline. He could have caught it and fallen down immediately, and then maybe we could have spiked the ball and kicked the field goal. He also could have dropped the ball on purpose to stop the clock (my choice). But wait a minute -- wouldn't both of those options really just be two different ways of overriding Ben's decision to pass it to him? How about Ben? If he didn't like what he saw downfield, he could have thrown the ball away, or just chucked it into the end zone for a mini-hail mary. Either way, unless there's an INT we at least get a FG attempt. He had ample time to throw it out of bounds, and he obviously could have easily dropped it at Moore's feet if he wanted to. But he passed it right to Moore. So either he thought Moore was going to run 17 yards for a touchdown against a prevent defense, or he thought it was worth risking 3 points to give Jeff Reed (still awesome at the time) a few extra feet.

Cut to: Ben's halftime interview with the sideline reporter: "Yeah, I dropped it to Mewelde, I was hoping he could get down fast, but he's a great player, he's got a great heart, he really wanted to get more, and so he just didn't get down in time."

What the.....

SHUT THE :swordsman: UP!!! It's bad enough you don't understand basic football time management that I mastered when I was 10, as you've proven on over a dozen occasions, but you have to go and blame some other guy for your stupid mistakes??? And you do it in such a f---ing condescending way. "Oh, Mewelde is so great, we love him so much, he plays so hard, it just didn't work out this time." He sounded like the 49ers consoling Kyle Williams after he cost them a trip to the Super Bowl. Yes Ben, you are such a great teammate for coating your BS backstabbing with backhanded compliments. I've always thought he was a big phony, but when I heard him say that I lost any lingering respect I might have had for him as a man. He's a piece of

I am NOT the kind of guy who wants yelling going on. I'm the kind that believes every player can be coached a different way, and it's the coach's job to figure it out, etc. But if I was Ben's coach and I happened to overhear that as I jogged back to the locker room, I would stop where I was and call him out for his bullsh-- right on the air. "Actually, Ben, you never should have passed it to Mewelde in the first place. A short gain anywhere on the field wasn't going to help us and would only cost us 3 points. That play was supposed to go into the end zone, out of bounds, or into the dirt, and as quarterback of a professional football team you should have known that. Especially since we had just come out of a timeout and you had plenty of time to think about it, and we had just told you. I'm sure your teammates will forgive you for your error, but if I were you I'd make sure to apologize to Mewelde personally for insulting his intelligence, when his only real fault is that he trusted you instead of shutting you down and then calling you a moron like he should have. Back to you, Armen." Okay, maybe doing it on the air would be going too far, but that's the kind of crap he needs to hear about. Someone needs to get in his face about crap like that. Someone also needs to teach him time management.

 

This whole thing has made me begin to wonder just who is the boss on a football team. If you work a job in the real world and your boss gives you a responsibility and you blow it then doesn't he have the right to let you have it? Who is the chief and who is the indian on a football team? As far as I am concerned the coaching staff should play the role of "boss" and the players should play the role of "employee". But the crazy thing is that Ben is making more than Haley and I'm sure that would make it harder on him to be subordinate to a guy that he is out earning. This argument on here though seems to suggest to me that some people think players are the boss. I think me and JackAttack think that the coaches are the boss and they can rule the roost anyway they choose. Sometimes I don't like the decisions my boss makes but he is still my boss. I work at UPS and actually make more than my boss and have been there longer than him but still have to do what he says. Is that fair? I say yes because noone is MAKING me work there and noone MADE Ben sign with the Steelers. He just needs to man up and be like the rest of us who go to work and have to obey. If the Steelers want a blue collar mentality then they need to do what they are told and pay the price if they don't. This concludes my sermon.

 

Wow, Blount... That was an interesting, and refreshing way to look at it.
Congrats on having a job where you make more money than your boss, for havin less responsibility...
Not trying to pick on you, really...that is fortunate for you...
In my case, I work for a company who pays me well, but makes questionable decisions, on how to use their workers.
I get paid decent, but not more than my bosses. It`s a family owned machine shop, and there are several things I see that could be done better, to help the company`s bottom line, but even though they tell me they appreciate employee`s input, on how they could improve, when I have given my sugesstions in the past, they have been ignored(been there 17 years), so now, I just do my job, and do what I am told, even if I know a better way to do it..
The thing is... The Coaches(Management), are ultimateley held accountable for the perfomance of the team(company)...
So it should be on their shoulders to run the team in the best way possible... if they don`t, they are gone(In the NFL)...
In my case, if the owners don`t make the right decisions, the company goes out of business, and I am out of work, looking for another job...
In the NFL... The team(company) will still exist, and just get better management(coaches)...the players can join another team... no worries about job security.
In my world, if my company(Team) goes out of business, I don`t have 31 other companies to apply to, that are gauranteed to still be in business.
Not sure how any of this relates to the world of multi-million dollar athletes, and billion dollar leagues, but I guess the bottom line is, the boss is the boss, and the worker is the worker... at least in the real world...
Edit... And yeah, I lost my train of thought...
The point was, Blount, you are right... No one is forcing me to work there... I am always free to change careers(teams)... :-D

 

HugeSnack, this is outstanding analysis. This is exactly the kind of mental lapse in judgment that has prevented Ben from taking the next step. I guarantee you one thing, Todd Haley will be quick to point these kind of dumb mistakes out to Ben and WILL NOT allow him to assign blame to anyone but himself. This will make Ben a better QB and will propel him to the next level.

 

Tread lightly Ben. Tread lightly.

 

i agree for the most part, i'm trying to say tom brady and ben are not in the same league when it comes to who runs the team. brady knows what to do and when to do it moreso then ben ever will. guys using tom being yelled at and ben being yelled at are like night and day. brady as much as i hate him is a talent beyond any OC that comes passing through NE. he understands what to do and when to do it. ben ain't even close to that nor do i think he ever will be on that level. if brady was our qb with the teams ben has had around him for this long, they would have been building extensions on the trophey case years ago. ben has physical talent, the head part isn't near the tom brady level.

 

No, this isn't the kind of thing that's armchair QB or Monday Morning Quarterback. This is the kind of stuff there is no excuse for. Adrenaline and all. If you were allowed to forget about game circumstances like down, distance, time, timeouts, etc. just because you have a lot on your mind, you'd stink at your job, no matter what position you play. I'm not saying Ben sucks at his job overall, but he definitely sucks at certain parts of it. Like knowing when to run a play vs. spiking the ball vs. calling time out. Again, this is stuff I mastered as an elementary school student. And I'm not talking about what he shoulda done after it becomes obvious. I can tell you what needs to happen after any given play after any given circumstance. And I'm not claiming to be a genius. Any intelligent fan can do the same thing. It's FOOTBALL, and there are 40 free seconds between every play! And like 5 times that after a timeout! It shouldn't take more than 2 seconds for a professional to study the game clock, the down/distance, score, # of timeouts, and know what to do. My girlfriend could do it in 10 seconds and she's a casual fan. Ben can't seem to do it at all, no matter how much time he has.

It doesn't take a genius. Almost every NFL QB gets this stuff right almost every time (or they have a coach that whispers in their ear what to do and he's the one getting it right -- I'm not sure why we can't do that). To the sideline, or to the end zone, or out of bounds. No sacks, no middle of the field. That's not hard. If his argument is really that he can't be expected to know what to do with all the craziness around him, I don't know how anyone can say he's not an idiot.

And I know it happens to other guys. Tony Romo dumped a ball off to his halfback on what was supposed to be a hail mary at the end of the half. Time was expired. Why? So he wouldn't get an incompletion on his record? So he wouldn't get hit? So he wouldn't get called for grounding? The back fumbled and the Redskins got a touchdown. Why didn't the back go down or drop the ball? Was he going to run 55 yards for a touchdown? There are millions of times when WRs and TEs and RBs don't run out of bounds when they should, and it costs them valuable time or timeouts. No excuse for them either. But I find it especially bad when you do something that you had to know was not an option before the play even started. I find it even worse when you blame someone else. I've heard Ben give credit to teammates a lot too. In fact, if you take him at face value, he's probably one of the most generous and humble men in the whole league. I just don't believe a single god damn word of it. To me, what he said about Moore was a glimpse at the real Ben, peeking through the facade.

 

2 points on this subject:
I don't care if a coach whispers to a player with his tongue in their ear or screams in their face, as long as, the method of communication he employes is effective. Essentially, I think we are all trying to say this same thing. I played football and had coaches who spoke so soft I could barely hear them and had coaches who, when they screamed, I could hear them from home (this is when I knew they were watching tape of me).
2nd point is this, we who are not on the field get caught up in these discussions about what a QB (or any player for that matter) should have, could have done and we forget that we, as fans, have a completely different viewpoint on the TV then does the player on the field. It gets easy to forget that they don't have cameras showing them every vantage point on the field like we have at home. The QBs that can take advantage of the view they do get are the ones that set themselves apart, Manning, Brady, etc. This is one area where I think Ben needs to mature.

 

Good points, Jim, I agree.

I was rewatching the America's Game show for SB43, and Ben is talking about being a gunslinger and so on - in fact, I think he says about how he should never have thrown the final TD pass to Holmes. And it's funny, because I was thinking that when I first watched it, I was enthused by that. But now (perhaps after the SB loss), I'm more thinking - well, that's fine for a young QB. But you can't keep that attitude now. Last season Ben made some atrocious reads, that a QB of his experience and talent shouldn't be making. If Haley can affect that, in whatever way is best, then brilliant.

 

I'm not sure if your 2nd point was directed at my Moore story or not, but if it was it doesn't really apply. The problem wasn't the read. Moore was plenty open and it would have been a fine play from his own 20 yard line in the 1st quarter. The problem is that he was clearly not mentally prepared for the play, and/or had no football instinct for the play. You don't need to see a TV screen to know what to do in that scenario. It's a mental thing, not a visual thing. And he can see the downs/distances/clocks just fine from the field. It's no different than a player staying in bounds to gain 5 more yards instead of running out of bounds to stop the clock. It's like, "Great, you got 5 yards. Pat yourself on the back, but we just lost the game because we didn't even get to try a field goal." You don't have to be Peyton Manning for this stuff. Any high schooler should know it.