Ben vs Haley

That's the way it has always been but for some reason they won't take the reigns off and let him do it the whole game. Of course a smart qb is going to call the right plays when he is out there seeing what is going on.

 

During the majority of those drives, we were down considerably and may have dictated the Pats D. Once we tied it, we punted on 2 consecutive critical drives. And, when we were successfull, we were too successfull and not eating clock, putting our D back on the field allowing the Pats to outscore us.

 

Let's just let Ben pull a Bradshaw and call ALL of his own plays. Is he too much of a freelancer to ever work successfully with an OC that has his own agenda? I commented on this before, as long as Ben has a submissive and docile OC that lets him do anything he wants to do, he'll be fine. But with an OC like Haley, who has his own ideas about what an offense should look like, Ben doesn't fare so well.

 

Haley likes to use too many substitutions and that's what slows down the no huddle. I was thinking last week that I wish we would go to almost exclusively because Ben thrives so well in it. Apparently Haley disagrees.

 

I'm not sure it's exactly ego. I think Haley feels like if he lets Ben go no huddle the whole time and Ben gets hurt he could be looking for a job again because he was brought here to save Ben from Ben. I do think they have probably had a peeing contest also though.

 

I could never see that happening. Ben has a competitive fire, but I don't think he's willing to put in the study time required to be an offensive coordinator. I can't see him sitting down and watching film, trying to understand an opposing team's defensive tendencies, trying to identify their weaknesses, how they'll react and respond in certain situations, etc. I don't think he does that now. Nobody is Peyton Manning, but Ben is a reactionary quarteback. Any offense led by Ben is a frenetic and chaotic offense. He's capable of making big plays but that's usually after the play called has broken down. How many times have we seen Ben break containment and make a big play after failing to hit his primary or secondary receiver after going through his progressions. Most offenses don't function that way. They can't, they don't have a quarterback with his physicality. But his physicality is fading and that, as BFT said above, is where he needs someone like Haley to save him from himself. He may make a good high school coach one day, but that's about it.

 

When Haley was in Arizona he coached the leagues top passing offense. When in KC he coached the leagues best run off. Before that as WR coach he help propel those he coached to probowl levels. He has offense success and is why the Rooneys brought him in and got rid of Ben's best friend Arians and Ben made it known he was very unhappy.

Ben is a Franchise QB. He can be Great. He wants to be the Best ever. He hates Haley and is not working with him like he should.

This past week before the game Ben was quoted as saying, I'm gonna get close as I can." Haley scripts the 1st ten plays and I'm not allowed to have any input".... If you noticed when Haley used the wildcat, Ben ran out to the wr position and on the snap he just stood there and did nothing, his CB, whom Ben outweighs by 70 lbs, is the one who crashed down and made the tackle. Ben let it be known he didn't like the wildcat so he sabotaged the play, more than once.

Sadly, if these two could work together like Brady & Belicheat we would be awesome. They can't and Haley, a good offensive coach, will be fired because Ben is the Franshise QB.

The No-Huddle-... Its used because we're behind and need to score. Its a double edged sword and those who want it run all-time is missing the other sharp edge. It leaves too much time on the clock allowing opposing offenses time to counter. It happens too quickly and doesn't allow the defensive players enough time to rest/get a breather nor time to regroup and make sideline adjustments.

Yes, the no-huddle gives Ben better numbers ( which he craves ) but when run for extensive periods of time hurts the team as a whole.

Both Ben and Haley are Hampered by a bad OL. Haley can't get that balanced attack he was hired to accomplish ( run & pass ) and Ben can't get settled into a safe pocket.

I truly believe that if our OL problems can be fixed, Haley & Ben come together and decide to work with each other ( they need lots of film room time together ) and trust each other we could have the leagues Best offense.

Ben and Todd need to realize they need each other and it's Tomlins job to make this happen. Lock them up with a pizza and gallon of tea in the film room for ten hours every night. Bench Ben until he realizes he MUST work with Haley. Turn over playcalling duties to Wilson until Haley gets off his highhorse and realizes he must work with Ben.

JUST DO SOMETHING Tomlin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cajun-

 

I have no animosity toward Ben and maybe I don't need to always believe what I read in the press, but I do believe that Ben failed the team as a leader last year with the little petty comments he made and his passive-aggressive behavior toward Haley. That's water under the bridge but it has colored my perception a bit of Ben as someone who likes to get his way and if he doesn't, he may pout a little over it. And while I was a proponent of hiring Haley, I've been disappointed with his overall body of work. I actually thought he was going to make Ben a better quarterback but so far that hasn't happened. At some point, we may have to look at it as a failed experiment.

And TTF, I don't say it or type it unless I truly believe it.

 

[ And while I was a proponent of hiring Haley, I've been disappointed with his overall body of work. I actually thought he was going to make Ben a better quarterback but so far that hasn't happened. At some point, we may have to look at it as a failed experiment.

And TTF, I don't say it or type it unless I truly believe it. [/QUOTE]

But Jack - as I stated in the other thread on whether Haley and LeBeau will be gone, Ben was having his best season of his career through the first 9 games last year, they were 6-3, and Ben had like the lowest sack total of his career. I am not enamored with Haley and the awful O Line has made a big impact on things, but is seems more like Ben is sabotaging Haley than Haley handcuffing Ben. The game is more vertical this year and wala a lot more turnovers from Ben plus he is getting killed.

 

I think they're both to blame, but if I had to assign a percentage to it, I'd go 60/40 Ben.

 

I actually don't mind the no huddle, and think that is probably one of the best aspects of Ben's game. By going no huddle, and more importantly, no substitutions, it can catch a defense on its toes with the wrong personel packages.
The bigger issue I have with the no huddle is that it always seem to take them forever to snap the ball. Why get to the line with 25 seconds to go and snap it with 2 seconds left? That's maddening to me. Another thing that Brady and Peyton excel at is the quick snap when the defense is changing personel. It's an easy five yards. I wish this offense was alert enough to do this.

 

I don't think Ben ever sniffs a coaching job in the NFL. I get the impression that he's not a very likable guy, but I could be wrong. Just the impression I get from years of watching him communicate with others, reading articles, listening to radio, etc.

 

Well I wouldn't exactly call Haley Mr. Congeniality. LOL.

 

I don't think Ben ever sniffs a coaching job in the NFL because he's not a student of the game. Bens success has been due to his athleticism and ability to improvise, not from his grasp of the offense and its structure. That can work if you're a player, it's a recipe for failure if you're a coach.


Besides you'd think he'd have banked enough of that $100M not to have to coach, and be subject to ranting of arm chair OCs on MSG boards like this.

FBRI!!!

 

Well yes, that's the biggest reason, but sometimes former players get offered coaching gigs just because they are former players (not OC or head coaches, but some form of assistant). I don't think Ben has a good grasp of the X's and O's plus I get the impression he's not a likable guy, which will also work against him.