Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by mcam, Mar 30, 2019.
If that's how you see it than so be it man.........
Exactly. Nothing good comes from it. So what's the point of bringing your teammates mistakes up on a radio show? No point other than to hear yourself talk and cause drama. The same people who don't think it's a big deal would have a knip**** if their boss,supervisor or foreman made a spectacle of them in front of their coworkers for making a mistake. Instead of simply pulling them aside and keeping it in house. Now multiply that by thousands and see who has thick skin now.
It was a stupid and unnecessary show that wasn't offering anything profound. For those who like to claim that he gets baited and that the questions are dumb. I could start right now thinking of better and more positive ways to answer those questions and I could come up with quite a few. He not only chose to criticize,he was way more specific than he needed to be. At the same time when he does criticize himself it's in a very generic way like " I have to play better" and " maybe I don't have it anymore ". It's never or hardly ever Yeah I should of done this or that on this play. He's also done more than his fair share of blaming the coaching and the play calling. He even makes excuses and basically condones his INTs. So I don't buy into the he blames himself too,so it's ok excuse.
Kind of hard not to see it that way when you doubled down after I asked you about it
No biggie, was just busting your chops.
I feel we are both.....well many of us are taking this a little to personal, we all have opinions and at the end of the day we are all Steeler fans and want the same things.....
I grouped @thesteeldeal and yourself together in my post, because it was the easiest way to respond to both of you. It was more of a laziness thing on my part than anything else. Didn't mean anything negative by it.
As for the Ben stuff, he may not be a perfect leader, but he is taking an undeserved beating in the media this offseason. Leadership definitely didn't come easy to Ben, but I think his leadership skills are better than some fans give him credit for. Giving up the show was just another huge step right direction for him, no matter who's idea it was.
Well if you're gonna be lazy. You should change your name to TuRnDoWnForDUD.. Ding,dong the show is dead,the show is dead,the show is dead. Ding ,dong Ben's wicked crititique is dead ...
I resemble that remark, the one about being lazy lol. I was just wondering cause there was another poster here that accused us of tag teaming whatever the heck that is, imo you agree and disagree with people.
I am not knocking his leadership but some want to keep making a bigger deal out o it...for example this thread. I agree no matter who's idea giving up the show was it is a great idea and will help things later on imo. Ben is Ben you get good things and you get bad things. I have my opinion about his leadership and it isn't as good as many of you but that don't mean I am not rooting for him.
Ahhhhhhh! That was SDOT I believe. If I recall correctly, you weren't allowed to be a Steeler fan because you were from NY, and @thesteeldeal was the "flat brimmed hat guy". Funny stuff. Good times.
He was part of it but there was another but that was something.
The Haley thing I agree with you on. I really do believe there were other factors as well though, mainly the ones I mentioned.
The stuff from way back when Cowher was here, there is no question Ben wasn't a leader then. He was a punk kid back then. Luckily for Ben, he had a great group of role models around him at that time. I'm sure like most of us there are some things he looks back at that hes not proud of. He is a far different person now. IMO
Your last line says it all. Trouble makers are gone.....no excuses
I remember something like that too but my memory isn't great right now. I'm a little under the weather and I have some of that mucus stuff building up in my throat. I don't know why your post made me think of that but it feels so much better when I don't have to worry about it
What's so funny? I'm sick.....are you heartless?
My post didn't distinguish between negative and positive. I am assuming since you quoted my post you must think I was? You actually quoted me and reiterated my point. We, the casual fan, don't really know much of anything which leads me to find it funny how some people come to the conclusions they do. I'm not even trying to tell people that can't come to their conclusions, but when they do, I reserve the right to find it funny. You could take 50 people ask them what makes a good leader and probably get 50 different answers. Obviously, some characteristics would overlap, but you would have a wide variety of responses. At the end of the day, you win the game on the field, so I tend to value a player's leadership on the field and not worry so much about the rest of it (that was my point about the leadership). I can't really address the rest of your post other than to acknowledge that you certainly feel the way you do and that is cool. I think every player on every team could look back and wonder if they could have done more. I think every person in the entire world can do that. I believe that is a pretty harsh thing to do to yourself unless you know you didn't even try. I don't think anyone can argue Ben hasn't tried. I think it is a pretty hefty price for one player, whoever that player is, to shoulder so much blame for a 10 year period, especially when you consider how difficult it is to win something like a Superbowl.
I’m not sure what you mean by pulling up the 1st 25 targets, but I’m guessing your point is that you think Ben threw bad passes to JW. Are you able to tell if it was a bad throw or a rookie receiver not being where he’s supposed to be? Are you able to tell when the QB correctly reads the coverage and the WR doesn’t? Do you know when the depth and timing of the WR’s route is different in the game than it was in practice? When a 15 year veteran Pro Bowl QB and rookie receiver aren’t on the same page, the evidence strongly suggests that the receiver is the culpable party.
See, I think you bring up the bigger point here. When we question an individual player's leadership, it becomes very polarizing (i.e. Ben). I tend to think we are all saying the same thing...there is a definite lack of leadership. I think there is an organizational lack of leadership right now, and I hope to shout it is rediscovered soon. Would probably solve a myriad of problems for this team. I believe stronger organizational leadership would have reduced the number of incidents that have turned this franchise into Jersey Shore (radio shows, talking trash before a game, tantrums, video recordings etc.). Just seems to me that we are now expecting players to do the coaches'/organization's job when at the end of the day they are still just a player who really only has control over what they do on the field. (please don't turn that into an argument about what a good leader is, that isn't my point)
Well if you want to get that in depth I guess we can say that about any throw to any WR. Where I am going with that is the 17 non catches were they in JW's hands or were they a foot over his head, was he covered well or was he wide open? There was a whole thread about this and people want to bring up these numbers as JW not producing. Piont me to it I don't know where to look, I will do the leg work but I am sure what I find people will just say I am looking at it wrong.
For the record I am fairly confident I can tell the difference between a bad throw or a dropped pass and that is what I am concerned with. As far as the other stuff you bring up who here can tell if a WR ran the wrong route....nobody. JMO
Ben is a career 64% passer, 67% last year. Using your numbers (17 incompletions on 25 targets) he started off at 32% on targets to JW. What other variable is there other than the targeted receiver? I rest my case on the statistical evidence.
To be clear, I feel very good about where JW is headed. His college tape doesn’t lie, and he started to put it together late last season. However, he was nowhere near NFL-ready for most of last season.
Excellent post but the one part I have a problem with then is the GM saying his QB is the father to 52 kids and even if those words could be taken a little out of context the bottom line is the GM has to be smarter than that. Especially with all the drama already surrounding the team. I myself could think of a myriad of different ways to say what he was trying to say without even a chance of upsetting the other players. I think that’s a bad reflection on the leadership of upper management as well. When Colbert also adds that the QB can call him out as well how do you think the” kids” feel about that?
You are correct when you say the leadership has to start from above but then the GM shouldn’t go overboard and out of his way to praise his QB and create a separation whether realistic or perceived. If you’re gonna give your QB that much juice and your QB also feels he has earned the right to criticize his teammates. Then the QB has to share a major part of the blame for a lack of leadership.
People act like it was all because of AB and LB. With the latter not even being in the locker room that the locker room was described as The Kardashian’s and there was also the comment about the team sleep walking. When you put the QB on a pedestal as the “unquestioned “ leader he has to be partly to blame for the culture and personality of his “ kids”.
I agree with quite a bit of why you said, but I also think that LB not being in the locker room was a HUGE part of the Kardashian comparison. All season it was in the news - will he rejoin the team after the bye? He didn’t rejoin after the bye, but will he rejoin before the deadline to accrue a season? Will his teammates accept him if he rejoins? Etc. There’s no way that the team could have shut all of that out. I don’t know how much of a role mental fatigue over the LB saga factored in to the losing streak, but it sure as heck didn’t help.
I hear what you’re saying but aren’t we supposed to have leaders like Heyward,Pouncey, Foster and Ben? People talk about thick skin. These leaders should of been able to shut out most of the noise. In fact this team played with a chip on its shoulders while LB was sitting out. It was after they knew he wasn’t coming that they started playing some of their worst football. I don’t know how the uncertainty of LB played a role in that when they played their best when his future was in question.
I think what went on behind closed doors was far more detrimental than the LB thing. AB was a problem that began in camp and progressively got worse throughout the season. With LB, he wasnt there, and the players moved on without him. With AB, he was there, and he was a problem, and I think that the attempt to keep the situation hushed lead to inner turmoil. When you think back to what we as fans know about, imagine what we DON'T know about.
Not sure where all this is coming from and what you numbers mean cause it has nothing to do with what we are talking about. it has been brought up on here many time how JW has under performed in the beginning of the season with his 8 receptions on 25 targets. People see number and this well he only caught 8 of them my point all this time is how many of them were catchable and how many did he out right drop. I will totally agree that JW was not a polished WR to start the season and did get better with time. He also wasn't gonna get the opportunity to get a lot of balls(as he shouldn't have with AB, Juju, Vance and Conner here) in hopes to be brought along which I feel happened. We were very spoiled to have Juju dod what he did the year before but other than Juju no Rookie WR set the world on fire right away.
Yeah I like JW I also like Juju and AB(liked) and Vance, Rogers and Switzer. All I am trying to point out is number don't tell the whole story....that's all!
From day one, I remember seeing Ben on the sidelines after every series shaking hands and building up his o-line..... even when his front line stunk, he still built them up......If he showed the same loyalty to his skill position players, he would have a team ready to jump into a fire for him