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Bell is killing the PA passing game

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by PWP, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I think he was but it don't matter cause right after that he had 3 weeks off.
     
  2. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    Thank you.

    Bell is a great player. Possibly one in a generation.

    But he still has bad games, and always has.

    Just like pretty much every player not called Antonio Brown.
     
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  3. Clive From PIT

    Clive From PIT I don't often drink...but I'm starting to. Site Admin

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    I just did some research: he was a full participant in training camp and the preseason games, then he sat out the first three regular-season games.

    So I'd disagree. I think getting that practice time -- in non-contact, contact and actual game situations -- made a huge difference compared to his preseason preparation this year.
     
  4. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely 100%....you just can simulate the speed of the game on some obscure HS field. His rythm and timing are slightly off in conjunction with the specialized blocking needed for his style of running. Bell will be fine he didn't lose it overnight. Jumping over bags and running away from blocking dummies I'm pretty sure isn't the same as guys paid to take your head off.....
     
  5. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    Exactly
     
  6. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Ok so he came in with one week of practice this year then had a presason game vs the Clowns......I am going to say that is just as good as showing up at camp playing in a hand full of snaps then sitting out 3 weeks with no contact with his team. Which meant he didn't have game speed for 3 weeks....it is the same as this year and like I said last year 5 of his first 6 games were under a 100 well under in a lot.

    I am just not buying the whole he sat out so he is rusty or lost a step stuff.....the Vikes have a pretty darn good defense I feel that had a lot to do with it too. I am not going to sit here and say Bell is 100% but I am not going to say he is rusty cause he sat out either.
     
  7. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Next you will want to give Martavis snaps to DHB :facepalm:, Conner isn't going to get no more than 5 carries a game if that.
     
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  8. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Nope because DHB can't really help in this regard . The post is about the RB position and how it effects and is effecting the PA game . No one has stated a case for how Bell is helping the PA game rather just jabs at my view .If my view is so off it should be easy for peeps to offer proof of how Bell is helping the PA game . Funny not 1 reply in that regard.

    Bell cried he didn't get enough work and this past game they gave him the work , yet the O was still not clicking . I predict Conner will get 10 or more touches this week and the WR'S will go off this week because there are better quick passing windows .
     
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  9. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you want to take less touches and less playing time away from Bell and more to Conner is ridiculous. The fact that anyone thinks Bell is hurting our passing game is crazy. Bell is our 2nd leading receiver first off and if the other team is so focused on bottling him up than AB and MB should be having a field day way down the field. But I guess that would be play calling and game planning.

    PWP you are entitled to your opinion and that is fine that is what this board is for nice debates. However I will fight you tooth and nail about this, as a matter of fact using your logic maybe Ben should only plan a half or so and since Dobbs looked ok in training camp he should see some time to inject some life in our passing game....... :shrug:
     
  10. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Finally some logic. James Conner should receive at least 8-1o touches per game, to keep Bell fresh for late season heroics
    and experience for Conner. Is Todd Haley capable of figuring this out?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Bell had 4 catches for 4 yards that's not much help in the passing game. Again I am not talking about the passing game as a whole . I am talking about the Play Action passing game . His style is not best for that anyway . What I am saying is really not a opinion.The fact is PA works because LB'S get sucked up.If Bell is not making them step up then the PA game is not at it's best.

    AB, Bryant, Ju,Ju, and Eli all have great open field running ability if a different style at RB allows those weapons to be open better and get open quicker then it should be part of the overall game plan.
     
  12. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    Okay, here is how I think Bell hurts us in the long term in our passing attack, and it is just my opinion.

    1. When he touches the ball over 27 times a game, It takes away from our talented receivers and they dont get the timing and in sync with Ben, which is needed when and if Bell goes down.

    2. An example of this was when Bell was out during the championship game last year and we were all out of wack with our receivers because they shut down AB and we weren't in sync in the passing because of the heavy usage of Bell in games prior.

    3. Remember the game against Kansas City, yea we won because field goals and not scoring touchdowns, because of the heavy usage with Bell. Our offense cannot be used at its best when they use Bell so many times. This is even more true now with Bryant and JuJu now on the team.

    4. Last year we had Coates and DHB who either one couldnt catch a cold. So I think the more or less were forced to use Bell more in the passing game even though I think it hurt Rodgers some in his development with Ben. There is no reason to force feed Bell now in the passing game with the talent we have now along with how Bell looks so rusty now both in the running and passing game.

    Bell was a great back with good vision, but i think we need to be careful of over use at the expense of others and put all our marbles on him. We need to be able to have a good offense with or without him and cant make the same mistake when and if he goes down. With too many touches and hits he is the most likely player to get injured.

    I think what a lot of us are saying, its good to give your other backs some carries in case he goes down. Its good to keep your talented receiver group in the game if you want to be a top notch offense machine and not rely so much with a back who has not played a full season because of injuries or smoking and on top of that wants way more money then he is worth and might not even be here next year because of his demands and ego.
     
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  13. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Because its a ridiculous thing to request. It falls mostly on Ben to sell the PA. Bells main job is to make sure Ben doesnt get killed after.

    And are you really suggesting that the LB's are just waiting around to see what Bell does after he does take a handoff? Like they are tapping each other on the shoulder pads, wait wait wait, Bell has it, lets see what he does before we rush in.

    Anyone needs to prove something its you since you're the one making the claim hes hurting PA after 2 games.
     
  14. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Ok first off lets not forget how this thread started off, you suggested bell is not the Bell of old and we should give more carries to Connor. Now your talking about wanting to change the style of offense to suit Connor instead of Bell. Dude we are 2 games in we just played a very good defense. Bell is one hell of a talent and oh yeah we are paying him 12 mil......let's get him going before we worry about taking snaps away and giving them to a rookie who does not fit this offense.

    As far as the other people who have said they want Connor to get more touches I agree but I want to get Bell going before that happens. I am not against getting Connor more snaps but lets wait to our #2 weapon on this team and a top 5 player in the NFL gets his stride going. Connor and Watson can get their snaps after Bell has put the game out of reach.

    Now as far as Bell not being help in the pa game, wrong!!!! If you don't think other teams are not game planning for AB and Bell your lost. The fact that Bell has rushed for over 1200 yards last year missing games and like I mentioned had 5 in a row under 100 and catching over 70 ball for over 600 yards makes him one heck of a problem for opposing defenses!
     
  15. RPO IZSB

    RPO IZSB Well-Known Member

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    Last year, the Steelers were dead last in the NFL is using PA (14%).
    Ben had the 7th best passer rating (98.7) with a strong completion 65.7% when NOT using PA.
    However, he when using Play Action, Ben's passer rating and completion % drop significantly (76.1 / 57.3%). Ben through only 4 TDs off PA, along with 3 INTs.

    Ben has Never been a good playaction QB, and our offenses use of playaction reflects that. He doesn't like anything about it, and we've used it less and less as he's aged.

    Many teams with franchise level QBs (Pit, GB, Oak, Ari, NYG, NO, SD, Det all bottom 10) , shy away from Play action because it asks the QB to take his eyes off the field. There are some of the offensive side of the game that will argue (and IMO correctly), that the offense is better served by the split second the QB has to read post snap coverage vs the space bought by the play action itself. A lesser talented QB can be helped by play action, it creates easier decisions. But, a big time QB will yield better results through his field vision/IQ. This is the case for Ben.

    Ben is #4 in QBR through two weeks...

    Basically... just consider the OPs thesis utter nonsense.
     
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  16. uncblue012

    uncblue012 Well-Known Member

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    Jeez, guys. I log on to craziness.

    Bell is not losing his job and it will not be diminished. He’s our guy — and rightfully should be.

    He will be fine. Scratch that, more than fine, because he’s a legit generational talent.
     
  17. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    will he even be here next year?
     
  18. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    If the Steelers want him he will. It's entirely up to them.
     
  19. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    But not @ 17 mil
     
  20. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    Maybe 12 mil but he has to improve from what he is doing now or it could be less then 9 mil
     
  21. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Never really thought about it that way, makes sense.

    And I never thought Ben was very good at selling it anyway.
     
  22. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Bells main job is to sell the run . If he does that correctly then be prepared to get hit . I don't call it PA with a half way fake and the RB looking to block . Not sure what you would call that ? 1 thing I know it is not is PA ....
     
  23. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Maybe that's why this high powered O is running on fumes .RPO made a great case for why Ben doesn't use PA. My view is with the type of WR'S we have he should . I don't hate Bell , but our O shouldn't be this tame with the weapons we have .

    If I was OC I would put Conner in more and use PA pass right behind the run lane.Ben not all in on it be damned . I need the ball in the play makers hands and PA pass is a very good way to do it . If Ben don't want to then where are the 350 yard passing games you should be putting up ? You produce to the level of talent we have or you have no say in the approach.

    If Brady had our weapons he would throw for 500 yards a game anytime Bill told him to. We have the best set of WR'S in the game IMO. We have one of the best OL'S in the game . We have 4 great run after the catch WR'S and the screen game is our main way to get them the ball ? How stupid is that ? Simple Football knowledge would dictate hitting them on the run instead of hitting them standing still. Bell's style doesn't open up those windows and those windows should be opened and set our talent loose.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  24. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Actually RPO made a great case for why PA isnt needed by top level QB's.

    As far as your other post and Bells most important job is selling the fake, not sure just how far you expect him to go to sell it but picking up a block and making sure we have a QB for next week is more important.
     
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  25. Clive From PIT

    Clive From PIT I don't often drink...but I'm starting to. Site Admin

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    Couple of thoughts:

    1. Bells sells the play-action fake as-is. Even if linebackers don't hurry to fill gaps, they still have to focus on Bell and where he's going to suddenly appear.

    2. If anyone has to "sell" the fake handoff, it's the QB. Watch any quarterback after an actual handoff: they turn their backs to the field and slow down. Keeping his eyes downfield tips off the defenders that the QB still has the ball.
     

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