BA- playcalling vs. Cincy

I guess I was watching a different game.... I thought Arians actually had a decent game plan for a change and I thought our offense played pretty well. Most of the 4th quarter, alot of our starters were out of the game and Batch was playing QB. I mean the Bengals are the sixth ranked D and I really thought we moved the ball at will.....

 

I don't know about the play-calling considering I'm not on the sideline or in the huddles but what I do know is that we won. Did I mention we won because some people don't seem like they realize we won. So, WE WON THE GAME!

 

At one point Ben was facing the sideline and making hand gestures like "back off."

 

BA matches the play calling to his team. That is his greatest quality. Other OC try to fit the team into his scheme, that doesn't work. Look at Indy, the team and play book was centered around Manning. When he is gone so is the entire offense.

Look at Ben's first drive stats for this year, http://www.nfl.com/player/benroethlisbe ... ionalstats , he has a QB rating of over 120 on his first 10 throws. I bet BA sits him down and goes over the first (maybe second) drive thoroughly. You can see that Ben runs these plays like Brady. He gets the ball and delivers it as the receiver breaks open. As the game wears on he loses that ability. (I don't know why) but the typical Big Ben comes in and we watch him "extend plays,' scramble get sacked, hold on to the ball too long, etc. His passer efficiency goes down. This isn't consistent through every year but it seems to be a trend. Brady, Brees, etc are more consistent throughout the game.

BA and Ben work well together as a winning combination. I just think that BA works with his personnel to win. Like Denver is doing with Tebow. Denver has gone against all the trends and copy cat offenses to produce a winning team with their personnel. So do the Steelers.

 

Those are some cool stats - thanks for the link. Ben's yardage on the first 10 plays is impressive - I wonder what happens after that? And his last two minutes of the half stats plummet - is this because of two minute drill riskier plays? I will have to ponder these.

 

When is the last time this happened? I for one have not at all been frustrated by our 3rd and long playcalling. seems to me that 3rd and long usually ends up in a sack given up by Kemo or Gilbert or a 15 yard strike to antonio brown..

the only time I can remember wanting to punch a whole in the wall was when we were up on the ravens a couple of weeks ago and called that swing pass to moore which he dropped with the game on the line and time on the clock

 

I was as frustrated by that classic "Fire BA" game, especially during the 09 campaign as much as the next steelers fan, but I definitely feel like he has improved since then.
As much as I love Ben, he has missed Brown and Wallace open and deep a considerable amount this season, but for some reason BA gets the blame for calling the play in the first place?

 

same old story. When we lose or the offense performs poorly it's all because of BA. When we win and the offense does well it happens in spite of BA. When BA does finally depart it'll be interesting to see how long it takes before his replacement assumes all of the blame for poor offensive performance. I'm guessing it'll be the very 1st loss LOL! Some of you folks have convinced yourself that the Steelers have the best offensive talent in the NFL and as a result should be scoring 40 points a game regardless of who they're playing. Last I looked we're not loaded with #1 picks at every position on offense, especially the offensive line and it is a fact that most games are won or lost in the trenches so that's a problem for us. In the skill positions we've got a couple of very talented young receivers who are still learning the game, a franchise QB that while very good still has short comings like not taking advantage of the short passing game or holding the ball entirely too long, a good vet TE that more often than not is resigned to blocking duty to help make up for the OL troubles and a feature RB that shows flashes of greatness but isn't consistent. As I see it BA seems to try and game plan around the best offensive talent he has which is the QB and the WR's. That's the same approach any other OC would take and when the opposing D has success in taking away the best part of your game or trumping your talent with theirs so to speak you're going to struggle. It's really that simple. In the games where our offense really looked sorry this year you could easily identify a handful of players in those games where their performance was as bad if not worse than BA's play calling. The two combined (execution and play calling) is what produces the final result be it a poor or good performance for that matter. Very rarely is the outcome solely based on just one or the other.

 

Lets flip the coin for a moment and should BA be replaced and things show a dramatic and almost instant improvement, notice I am saying almost instant not that from day one but it will seem like it. Will that conclusively show that may there was a point to all this? That while he is doing an adequate job there is more that can and should be done.

 

I know that execution is usually the problem because I can see missed blocks, poorly thrown passes, dropped balls, penalties ect. Many of the fans can see those issues as well. For some reason, fans expect the coaches to over come player mistakes.

I don't believe one angle is good enough to determine if the the WR's were open. However, if the WR's were not open or ran incorrect routes, that's execution. It's the WR's job to get open regardless of the coverage. I don't believe in the statement, "The past two games were played against depleted, poor secondaries" at the NFL level. Players make it into the NFL because they can play. Just because you view them as poor and depleted doesn't mean they won't play well individually or as a group on any given Sunday.

 

He has been the OC since 2007, they have won the SB and lost the SB with him. I think we should wait for a more long term track record for teh new guy than to say BA was a bust and the new guy is the man.

So I don't think an instant improvement is enough to convince me. By the way, what do you propose as the measuring stick to show improvement, wins, offensive yardage, more equal distribution of run to pass, or what. Since he took as OC they have a 68% winning percentage and have been 12-4 twice and should be that or better this year, making 12-4 or better three of the five years he has been there. He has won for us.

 

Utilizing the right scheme for the talent you have. I think this year has shown that the OL can't pull off the zone blocking scheme they just can't. However when they simplify and go straight-up man to man, downhill drive blocking they have greater success. So instead of whinning about the poor quality of the Ol and how they should draft better players why not use the players you have at the moment and play to what their strengths are? Instead of practicing for when the play breaks down and Ben extends it. Practice the play until it is second nature and then spend less time on scramble drills. Utilize formations and personnel packages to maximize the offensive talent you have. Become more aware of situational play calling. If you have a tenuous 7 pt lead and it is a critical third and four, get the first down don't look for the less than 5% chance that a 20+ yard completion is there. I am not saying run run run, but get your QB to see that the check down is a way to extend the drive and not an easy way out. If they want to be a passing team that become one and do so with more efficiency. I am not saying score every possession but stop the empty backfield 5 wr set that results in a sack or three and outs. If you are going to use it then teach Ben how to read the defense find the quick route and trust that his receivers will make the play. but i could just be spitballing here.

 

This is something I'm going to address for the last time. On the other message board I read similar complaints about how Brady and Manning would have the same consistancy over the game while Ben tends to lose his abiltiy. Now, think, or better yet, watch a NE game and count how many times Brady hits he turf and on the other hand count how many times Brady gets flushed out of the pocket and has to run and do the same thing with Manning. What you will see is a stark difference in how those QBs are protected as to what Ben endures during a game, sure, he does hold the ball and there are some sacks that are on him, that is true but how many times during a game does someone come straight up the middle or from the outside untouched and Ben gets clobbered even if he gets the ball away. Every Game NE loses the one thing number that stands out is the number of time Brady is hurried or hit, when he gets hurried or hit more than twice his numbers drop like a brick. So how would he fair playing for the Steelers? We would be cellar dwellers as very few passes would be complete because he would simply throw the ball away rather than take the hits that will happen behind this o-line. Manning is the same, hit him a few times and he is a different QB. So let us stop comparing apples to oranges.

 

Very true and you could probably say the same thing about every coach on the team including Tomlin and I don't know what kind of dramatic or instant improvement you're looking for. Regular playoff contenders and two SB appearances during his time in the position seems pretty good to me. You must be suggesting that a new OC would result in winning the SB every year ? Even the great Bill Billicheat hasn't been able to pull that one off.

 

He gets the blame because he needs to understand his QB's abilities, strengths and weaknesses. Ben isn't accurate when throwing the ball 50 yards down the field, yet that play is sometimes called 10+ times per game. With Brees as QB, fine, call the play, but with Ben, it's going to be rarely successful. BA should understand that and call the plays accordingly. He doesn't though.

 

This is something I'm going to address for the last time.

LOL.

On the other message board I read similar complaints about how Brady and Manning would have the same consistancy over the game while Ben tends to lose his abiltiy. Now, think, or better yet, watch a NE game and count how many times Brady hits he turf and on the other hand count how many times Brady gets flushed out of the pocket and has to run and do the same thing with Manning. What you will see is a stark difference in how those QBs are protected as to what Ben endures during a game, sure, he does hold the ball and there are some sacks that are on him, that is true but how many times during a game does someone come straight up the middle or from the outside untouched and Ben gets clobbered even if he gets the ball away. Every Game NE loses the one thing number that stands out is the number of time Brady is hurried or hit, when he gets hurried or hit more than twice his numbers drop like a brick. So how would he fair playing for the Steelers? We would be cellar dwellers as very few passes would be complete because he would simply throw the ball away rather than take the hits that will happen behind this o-line. Manning is the same, hit him a few times and he is a different QB. So let us stop comparing apples to oranges.[/quote]

First no complaints here. I would bet that Brady is hit on by the unblocked defender as often as Roethlisberger. See http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/23/when- ... roethlisb/ Brady got sacked more times in less than 3 seconds than Roethlisberger in 2010. I understand that Ben avoids the early sack better than Brady. But the stats show that early pressure is still on Brady. That is why he (and other great QB of his style) try to get rid of the ball early and that is why pass plays are designed to develop quickly. With Brady, Manning X2, Brees, Rodgers our offense would look much different. (I AM NOT SAYING BETTER!!!!) These QB's drop back and throw the pass like machines. Ben plays like a man.

BA has tailored this team to his QB, instead of trying to tailor the QB. This is why we are successful. A coach with one of the other great QB's has an easier job. Draw up a 2.5 second route and give it to the team to run. BA has to prepare the team for 4+ second pass plays. Give him some credit for not trying to change Ben and playing to his strengths.

 

What I don't get is when Ben says there is miscommunications with the offense, miscommunications with the receivers....it happens often, almost too often?

 

that is the end result and everyone has a tendency to look at the end result as a justiifcation for the process that led them there. I am not speaking of winning the SB every year or going undefeated multiple years in a row. What i am talking about when I say dramatic improvement is the noticable in game things that many scratch their heads on here about. I gave several examples in my reply to concussion. As he has said BA has been here since 07 in that time I would think he should know Ben's habits and tendencies so instead of working on providing tools to be as good as he can be every week. It seems that he doesn't acknowledge that he misreads the defense or he doesn't trust in the play call. I think if you look at the improvements this year in the secondary you can see the sort of thing I am talking about. Lake comes in and identifies what he wants to work on with his unti and you can see it translate on the field. So while yes game planning can be shot to hell in the first minute of a game and any given Sunday you can get beat by anyone. If a new OC is brought in or promoted form with in I would hope to see improvement across the board in consistency and execution.

 

The Steeler offense is not formation based like some teams, they can run 50+ plays form one formation, and with that many plays from a single formation with young recievers, miscomunication is going to happen and not just the young guys, all the players will have something like that happen at one time or another. The trick to it is not to have it happen at critical times.

 

That play has been in the PB since the 90s. Its a pretty standard "we're conceding the ball and we're just trying to get a few extra yards for the punter" play. Nothing wrong with it.