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Anybody else dumbfounded on the amount of holes we have?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Steelresolve, Apr 20, 2024.

  1. Steelresolve

    Steelresolve Well-Known Member

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    Who do you blame for the amount of holes we have? The easy answer is to blame Colbert for the last five years of his tenure but I think there is alot more to it.

    1. We had alot of bad luck with injuries and early retirements. Shazier, Tuitt, Decastro.

    2. We waited way to long to draft and develop OL and QB positions.

    3. Bad coaching at the position level - we failed to develop or position guys to maximize their full potential - ie - Kevin Dotson and honestly Dionte Johnson.

    4. Poor drafts - Bush is a perfect example. Reached for positional need instead of drafting BPA.

    5. Most recent is below average FA signings - Mason Cole, Patrick Peterson and bad luck Cole Holcomb.
     
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  2. Born2Steel

    Born2Steel Well-Known Member

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    That list sounds 100% Kevin Colbert. Mystery solved. Meddling KIDS!
     
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  3. Rollers

    Rollers Well-Known Member

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    No
     
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  4. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I get what you’re saying, and largely agree. At the same time, we had a bunch of holes last year and found a way to get to 10-7. We’re starting the season better than we started last year at starting QB, better at both outside corner spots, better at strong safety, better at ILB. If Jones and Benton have reasonable year 1 to year 2 improvements, they’ll likely be top 25% percentile starters.

    That said, I am frustrated as all hell that we’re headed into the draft needing a Day 1 starting center, a Day 1 contributing #2/#3 WR and a Day 1 nickel corner. This class has talent at RT and outside CB, and it’s really unlikely that we’ll be able to get a solid 2025 starter at both positions, maybe neither, because we’ll be filling Day 1 needs. That’s how I see it anyway.
     
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  5. Steelresolve

    Steelresolve Well-Known Member

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    Thats exactly how I feel. If we didn’t have the needs at WR and Center we could have really focused on RT and CB which I think there is so much to be had in those areas in this draft. Now I feel like we are missing out because we have to fill those other needs.

    I feel like we have been fooling around with the OL for at minimum three/four years now. If Chuks and Cole would have panned out we could be focusing on players like Cooper DeJean and Braden Fiske or Payton Wilson to really solidify our defense. At this point unfortunately you almost have to go all in on offense to support Wilson and Fields so you have no excuses on that side of the ball.
     
  6. Born2Steel

    Born2Steel Well-Known Member

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    2020 Draft - Kevin Dotson FA - Stefan Wisniewski, Zach Banner, Jarron Jones

    2021 Draft - Kendrick Green, Dan Moore Jr FA - Joe Haeg, Zach Banner, BJ Finney

    2022 Draft - None! None OL! FA - James Daniels, Chuks, Mason Cole

    2023 Draft - Broderick Jones, Spencer Anderson FA - Le'Raven Clark, Isaac Seumalo, Nate Herbig

    Last 4 drafts and free agent signings for OL only. Prior to 2023 only Dan Moore and James Daniels remain as starters. 2023 class brought Jones and Seumalo. 2 more starters, with Nate Herbig slated as starting Center pre-draft. Only backup left is Anderson.

    That really is an ugly track record.


    I think overall the drafts and FA signings have been good. Just not when it comes to OL.
     
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  7. biggbunch68

    biggbunch68

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    Drafting got worse when Tomlin got more power.
     
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  8. james weyandt

    james weyandt Well-Known Member

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    not dumbfounded just confusion on why we get rid of Diontae Johnson when that just makes another need and what if Pickens acts up. We solidify some positions but open holes at others.
     
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  9. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    The Steelers have over 12 million in cap space available, they definitely should've filled a few more holes.
     
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  10. Brice

    Brice Well-Known Member

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    Funny, I thought this list was going to be about the current team.

    Just on Offense you have Huge Holes at Starting Center, Starting Right Tackle, and Starting WR. Funny, I don't remember Kevin Colbert ever going into a draft needing to fill this many Starting Position IMMEDIATELY!!!

    And don't even get me started with what Khan has done completely ignoring the aging DT's in Hayward and Larry'O; accounting for $36 million in Cap Space despite how much their play has fallen off last year because of Age and Injuries. This will be the downfall of the Steelers Defense in 2024.
     
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  11. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    If we get good Qb play....I'm not worried. If not....it won't matter a two F**KS what else is going on in the long run.
     
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  12. Steelersfan43

    Steelersfan43 Well-Known Member

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    You can overcome some weakness if your coaching staff is elite....
     
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  13. Born2Steel

    Born2Steel Well-Known Member

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    There is NO BLAME. It just is what it is. I laid out the OL that have been brought in since 2020 a few posts back. Most did not work out. That is the breaks. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't, sometimes they become HoF players. All of that is more on the player than the guy who drafted him. Of the 17 transactions I posted earlier, only 1 leaves you scratching your head wondering why did they do that.(Kendrick Green) All you have to do is load up the 'Google Machine' and start researching previous coaches, other team's drafting histories, to see this is not something odd to have happen. I have full confidence the FO will get things ready for another successful football season.

    As for the 'other holes'....what specifically has you guys worried? Are we going to start playing in September without WRs? Do you guys feel stressed out that we will start the 2024 campaign with only Herbig at Center?
    Whoever they bring in on DL is playing behind Heyward, Ogunjobi, and Benton already and possibly even Adams and Leal. But they will get somebody.
    We don't know the status of Holcomb as far as a return, and the how much of a return, so we got Patrick Queen.
    The only real 'HOLE' is in the secondary. BUT, if we draft a guy like DeJean and/or bring in Simmons which has been rumored, suddenly that hole goes away.


    It is going to all work out just fine. R-E-L-A-X. (I'm ever the optimist)
     
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  14. Rollers

    Rollers Well-Known Member

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    Well put
     
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  15. SGSteeler

    SGSteeler Well-Known Member

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    1. True, this has been tough
    2. OL sure, but we just missed too often imo. QB I think we drafted at the perfect time, we just drafted poorly. Unless we were prepared to cut Ben loose a couple years before he retired, then we did the right thing.
    3. Agree, but Dotson and DJ are bad examples. We played Dotson out of position and DJ was a product of our OC and QB play.
    4. KC missed a bit more at the end of his career than usual. Bush being the biggest mistake.
    5. We haven't had too many huge signings though, hard to be too upset about Cole and Peterson at the price we paid for them. Middling signings that didn't work out. Olczewski was bad for sure. Holcomb was an injury, unfortunate because he was playing well. We've had some solid FA signings in Ogunjobi, Roberts, Seumalo, Daniels, etc. I don't think we've been stellar but we haven't been bad comparatively.

    I think people overstate the amount of "holes" this team has. Even the best teams in the league have a "hole" or two somewhere. I think the current FO has done a pretty good job addressing those holes and hopefully will continue to do so. We have a good bit of high end talent on the team. Just need to fill a few more gaps and we should be good.

    We just have to accept that the roster is incomplete at this stage and there is still the draft and a secondary FA period to come. We can talk about "holes" in the roster during training camp.
     
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  16. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I do think many are forgetting about cook. Feiler and big al took a couple of years before starting and that worked out pretty well. Cook was kept and brought back for a reason I believe. Anderson also had good reviews last year. The Tampa coaches were pretty upset they let cook go. Maybe we have more of a plan then most think.:cool:
     
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  17. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    We need to find out if these guys can play, Our practice squad is littered with positions
    we will attempt to address next Thursday. With about 5 players on every NFL team swallowing up
    cap space, player development/ player evaluation is huge!
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
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  18. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I definitely like what we saw from Cook last year. I’m not sure I’m seeing top tier starter upside there, but I think he easily projects as a capable swing tackle. That’s a valuable role. He also played some LG last preseason. I honestly don’t remember much about his LG play, but if it was passable that’s even better for his spot as a versatile swing man. The team is bringing in a lot of potential starting RTs this offseason, so I think the plan is clearly to try to get one in the first 3 rounds.
     
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  19. Bubbahotep

    Bubbahotep Well-Known Member

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    You forgot the obvious one; Ben Roethlisberger.

    Think about it. The Steelers last contract with him was more hope than it was good football sense. His returning for his final season delayed several moves that should have started, with the big one being OL. Remember Roethlisberger was still lobbying Pouncey hard to return one last season with him even though it was abundantly obvious that Pouncey was done (i.e snaps over head). Instead, the Steelers drafted a completely raw prospect at center hoping Roethlisberger's quick throws could overcome weakness at the position.

    But you also can't fight the owner's decision that he wanted Roethlisberger back for that last season. BR returning also impacted the draft that season when the Steelers decided on an average TE the QB could throw to rather than a 10 year center.
     
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  20. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    many of these tackles were on the practice squad last year and back for this camp. they did a lot of work during the season of signing o-linemen for the future to see if they can work into a vacancy if one opens up. it wasn't too many years ago we had 3 UDFA's starting on the line and that line was pretty good. anderson, cook, herbig, moore are not terrible players to have at depth and possibly at a starting position. maybe not the greatest in canada's offense but may just fit the bill in smith's. trying to go by what they did with kenny, trubisky, mason and canada may look quite different with smith, russell, and fields. :cool:
     
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  21. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

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    Well they need a starting center, a starting wide receiver, a possible starting corner, a starting right tackle. Also getting younger on the defensive line. No holes I can see.

    The first 4 picks need to hit the ground running and contribute right away.

    I do feel that Khan and Weidl are on the right track. I also believe they have more juice then you think. Need another solid draft.

    This team is not close to competing for a Championship. Lets see an actual playoff victory! Lets see...
     
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  22. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    it was more than that i believe, though you are on the right track. we lost heath, shazier, pouncey, AB, fieler < was moved to guard, then gone, bell, conner was hurt a lot, then ben getting old, that is a lot to try to replace all at once or even over a couple of years. it just snowballed. the waste of draft capital on bush hurt. that was a first, second and third for a big mistake. :cool:
     
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  23. Bubbahotep

    Bubbahotep Well-Known Member

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    All true as well. What is disturbing is the amount of time it is taking to replace said players. The Steelers are now on their 4th season trying to rebuild the OL. KC completely rebuilt theirs in one season!

    And the Steelers are still looking for the mythical replacement for Shazier after more than a half decade of football. Seems if you can't find a player it makes more sense to change the scheme on defense.

    Truly, this team is still a couple of drafts away from being a competitive SB candidate unless they can pull off a miracle plugging their holes.
     
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  24. oldschool

    oldschool Well-Known Member

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    It’s THE ONE area that they don’t have to be hampered by league rules! Just spend your way out of the problem based on great football knowledge.

    There is no cap, or selection amount limitations! Just go get the guys that you want with money when their contracts are up.

    Or at least try that method. It’s not like the Rooney family is a start up just scraping by. The money gained from (hopefully) wild successfull seasons would have to pay for the initial spend.

    I’ll never get over letting Munchak go. Yeah, yeah, it was supposedly his family decision yadda yadda… BS a stack of money would have stifled that decision. And yes, I know that he had Pouncy and DeCasto and company. But he created a very visual spike in the lines growth immediately and likely would have with the next group.
     
  25. oldschool

    oldschool Well-Known Member

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    Great post! Basically channeled my exact thoughts. Kinda scary actually.

    However, IMO, it seems that you really missed the still reverberating impacts of Bell and Brown.

    I personally think that the Tuitt situation realllly screwed us more than most people seem to agree with. And I’ll never get over it. That had a huge ripple effect. Shazier too, but that is unfortunately from the nature of the game.

    It’s not that he made an understandable life decision, I’m all for that. I have a heart. I can’t prove it, but I just feel that he made a very calculated decision to string EVERYBODY along for an entire year and absorb a full high paid salery while they had to spend high valuable cap money and space to try and replace the great player that he was. Our D line continues to suffer and doesn’t yet look to have recovered and won’t for at least another two years if we are LUCKY!

    The early losses of Bell, Brown, Shazier, and Tuitt still feel like we are living in a recovery zone from an earthquake that Matt Canada was hired to clean up by Mike Tomlin from an office in another region. Rooney from another galaxy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
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