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Am I the only one?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Fe3CCity, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. Fe3CCity

    Fe3CCity Well-Known Member

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    That's sees such a hole for the next 2 years until the cap will be increased significantly. Did we catch a bad break when the CBA got a deal done where the cap didn't get expanded as it was thought to? I'm sure our FO was looking for those continual increases that wouldn't have put us in the **** like we are.

    To bring up another post, I love rolando McClain. Dude is a great backer. So good, I believe, to bring a youth movement to the steeler D centered around him.

    But the question remains, what bad fortune was it? Bad money management? The CBA dispute that set back cap increases for 4 years; not total increase just not the same increments that were in place. Bad player development?

    I ask those that know the cap numbers better then I tell me the increases if you could that were projected vs what happened. I think it hurt us more then being discussed.
     
  2. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    i thought from the beginning that the contract of woodley and timmons were too high , i was for 8 x year not 10
     
  3. gpguy

    gpguy Well-Known Member

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    I've said it many times over the last year or so...that the cap was projected to be higher than it is...and a LOT of teams planned for that (before the new CBA/etc)...and now there have been a LOT more teams having to restructure...before you didn't see anywhere near this many restructures in one off season as we have this year.
     
  4. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    If McClain is so great then why did the Raiders release him? You guys are thinking of what he did in college he's not a great backer heck he's not even good.
     
  5. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    I suppose the Steelers gave some consideration to future cap growth and maybe they expected more, but I doubt it was a serious consideration. They had a core group, poised for Super Bowl run, and they locked up as many of the pieces as possible, and they decided to worry about tomorrow later. Well, it worked two SB appearances in '08 and '10. I can't fault their strategy. And I doubt many would be happier had they been more frugal, and let Woodley or Polamalu walk in their prime, especially when they were an annual contender.

    Its a problem now, but the risk payed off. I doubt they would have acted differently even if they knew the cap would stay flat.
     
  6. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    it also hit in the backend of bens contract when his highest salaries kick in. it's a big draw without the cap moving. it's not even so much that we are paying some of these guys but they have to stay on the field.:cool:
     
  7. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim

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    Mac, this is my opinion too. We need a couple of pieces but I still believe if we can keep our players on the field we are as good as anyone. Read other team message boards, they are just as worried about their teams players/moves as we are. I guess this is what you do in the off-season, worry and second guess. We can do both with the best of them!
     
  8. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I too question the amounts of dollars, to Woodley, Troy,Simmons,Ben Ike,JH, Kiesel.
    But There are always some owner out there willing to make foolish signings
    and more or less the Steelers had to pay market price or take the risk of losing
    these core players. I am sure the Steelers are asking themselves are we getting the production
    from these players mentioned above for what we are paying them? And you thought
    Silverback being cut was hard too swallow, just wait till next year if some of these guys
    do not put up pro bowl #s. I can see three of the above getting cut.Maybe even
    Dan Rooney's boy IKE, LOL. Now lets talk about greed that all of you accused Silverback of.
     
  9. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim

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    Don't lump me in with the greed bunch. These guys are just like anyone else in the world. They want to make as much as they can do their job. I don't go to work saying, "You know, I'm not nearly worth as much as you guys pay me. Please, reduce my pay or let me go!". Nor would I get a better offer from someone else and not even give it a second thought. I think it is way to easy as a fan to sit in judgement of these guys, especially when some of us can't even fathom the amount of money they make or how it should last them. It is easy to to look at my salary, then theirs and wonder to myself how they could, possibly, spend it all.
     
  10. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Well said Jim. Another thing that people don't seem to take into account is that NFL money is fleeting. The guaranteed money is really all that counts. There's a constant stream of players being cut every offseason, and never seeing the bulk of their reported contract dollars. Look at Laurent Robinson as an example. He signs a 5 year, $32.5 million dollar contract last offseason, and he can't even find a team today after missing 9 games with concussions last season. Players absolutely need to get what they can. Disciplined teams need to make the right fiscal decisions and know when to let guys walk, and when to pay what it takes to retain core players. I don't blame Mike Wallace for going where the money was, but I also commend the Steelers front office for not getting caught up in the numbers game with him. They knew what they were willing and able to spend, and said "fine, go" when the time came.

    With respect to how our front office has played things in recent years, I think they did exactly the right thing in the majority of the cases where we shelled out big dollars. We had a team that was legitimately in the championship mix every season, and the front office correctly did what it needed to do to keep core players from departing through free agency. When Woodley signed his contract, he was a MONSTER and his contract reflected the market for a pass rusher of his caliber. Ben's contract was at or slightly lower than the going rate for a franchise QB. Keisel's contract is utterly cheap for the caliber DE that he has been during our run. Ike's most recent contract is not all that big by #1 CB standards.

    It's really easy to play revisionist historian and point to the injuries the past two years, and the lack of success that came primarily as a result of those injuries, and say that the front office blew it, but that would be ignoring the facts as they were at the time that the decisions were made. At the time that the decisions were made, we were in a mode of keeping a championship roster together. In the salary cap era, you HAVE to risk a lot to keep a championship roster together. It's funny how people point to 2011 as a bad year that was somehow the result of the front office making bad decisions. Really? We were 12-4 and literally 1 win removed from the #1 seed in the AFC, even though we were largely destroyed by injuries. When you look at the injury list from the playoff loss in Denver - both in terms of guys who were injured coming in (Pouncey, Woodley, Mendy, Ben, Clark not playing, etc), and guys who were injured during the game (Starks, Keisel, Hamptopn, etc), it was way too much to be overcome. However, that was a championship caliber team that was derailed by the injury bug. Last year we were in pretty good shape - despite a large number of key injuries on defense - when Ben went down. That injury derailed our season more than any other factor. It was not a good year for a variety of reasons, but absent that injury we are in the hunt for the division, and at least get in as a wild card. There is no doubt in my mind that we will be fully in the mix in 2013 if the injury bug doesn't bit us hard. Every team has holes on its roster - except maybe San Francisco. Get ready for another season like 2010 where the pundits pick us to be 3rd or 4th in the division, and we win it.
     
  11. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    This years restructure for Ben doesnt leave much of his 102 mill contract left owing to him, it's his second restructure in two years and of course he likes getting the cash up front instead of getting it in salary, who wouldnt, but since he received 36 million in guaranteed money when he signed his new contract in 08, he got 10 million more up front last year, and at least that much this year, he doesnt have enough time left on his contract to fit anymore restructing into it: The only thing they can do with his deal next year is to extend it out to get any cap relief , so I expect they will negotiate a contract extension next year.....
     
  12. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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    I think they are in trouble....its the first time since Cowher took over...that I really feel this team is in trouble....they can compete...maybe even sniff at the Lombardi.....as long as Ben is the QB...nothing is out of the question.....but I think they are more likely to go 8-8 again vs Super Bowl this season.....just have to hope they get hot.

    The Steelers have always said they like to build through the draft..and not FA....that only works when you hit and keep your draft picks....and thats not happened as of late.....so they should have looked to plug a few holes in FA....but they really did not...and its going to bite them IMO.

    Cracked me up when Colbert says things like "we were 8-8 last year....why would we not make changes" Yet they keep resigning guys who were part of that 8-8...or guys like McFadden, or Gay that have never been anything more than fodder.

    HACK


    HACK
     
  13. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    i agree, but i think the defense can be good enough to keep us in games this year. we need TD scorers on offense. thats where i think we are in the most trouble.:cool:
     
  14. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim

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    I think most of us are saying the same thing here. In a world with no injuries we have a legite shot. If Ben gets hurt we are in trouble! If our defense suffers injuries we are in trouble! On a side note, I re-watched some games from last year and everytime I watch Woodley I scratch my head when it comes to his injuries. Don't get me wrong, I like Woodley and I have seen what he is capable of but I just can't figure out how he gets injured. Seems to me, in my extremely unprofessional opinion, that his injuries have to come from his training or lack there of. He just doesn't seem to be doing the things on the field that would coincide with the injuries he receives but, like I said, that is just my humble little opinion.
     
  15. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    And your entitled to your humble opinion, and a very good one i might add. What frustrates me is I think Our
    Fo is lazy and doesn't try hard enough to improve our team. I LOVE THE STEELERS, they are my hometown team
    I only comment because I want to see them get better and able to compete with other high caliber play off teams.
    I do not see many players on this roster that excite me, Maybe I am hoping for too much? But we can hope can't we?
    We can hope that Denver, SF, ATL, Seattle, GB, NE, Houston aren't light years ahead of us, or is this too much to ask of our FO?
     
  16. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    part of the problem is we base this season on last season. our young guys will get better. they will not continue to play at their rookie level, at least i'd hope they get better. if not we need to get rid of some more coaches.

    anyway, i like the coaches we brought in and it may be just what the dr. ordered for the advancement of these young guys. remember we are only in year two of this offense. our new coaches have to get comfortable with what haley wants to do and these guys have enough knowledge to help this along.

    as i've said before, i think our defense can keep us in games. i don't think it's as bad as some make it out to be.

    the O is young, but we have some good core players to help it along. ben,pouncey,AB,cotchery,buress,spaeth and even the RB's we have are seasoned enough to help. we need to fill in with some consistant scorers though. that hasen't been done.:cool:
     
  17. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I agree Mac. Some folks lose sight of the impact that injuries to our young players, not just the older ones, had on us last season. If I do a position by position run down, I don't see a dire situation. I do, however, see a team that is in a slight rebuild mode. I say "slight" because I believe that we will still be competitive, and are good enough to win it all if we stay healthy AND get hot at the right time. Here's how out see our situation by position grouping.

    QB: Same
    RB: Better - assuming we either add Bradshaw (who I really like), or draft a solid RB, then I see the position as an improvement
    WR: Worse - there's no getting around the loss of Wallace's speed, but when dollars are taken into consideration the front office did the right thing letting him go. There's still a LOT of work to be done on this position in the offseason, so there's no way to give a clear grade.
    TE: Worse week 1, same later in the season - without Heath, this position group will not be as effective in the passing game. Fortunately, the signing of Spaeth should keep the TE impact on our run game the same. Once Heath is back, we should be much better in the run game at the TE position with both Heath and Spaeth on the field at the same time. We are talking about 2 of the very best run blocking TEs in the league. That could really help us run the ball effectively late in the year.
    O-Line: Much better - This should be a drastically improved group if it stays healthy. The only big concern that I have is Gilbert at LT. He may end up being adequate, or he may bomb completely. Our guard and RT play should be improved with DeCastro and Adams coming back after a full offseason. I am looking for out O-line to be in the upper half of the league this season, and that's something that we haven't seen in a while.

    D-Line: Same - assuming that McClendon and Ta'Amu cover the nose, and Heyward gets a ton more reps, I see a unit that will have a harder time holding up in their 2 gap responsibilities against the run, but will also be more dynamic in pushing the pocket against the pass. It could end up being a good trade off.
    OLB: Better. Even without Harrison, all it will take is a healthy Woodley to make this an improved unit this year. I think there's a high probability that we get a guy in the draft who will see significant snaps behind Woodley and Worilds. I am starting to get the feeling that we are looking hard at John Simon in the 2nd or 3rd round.
    ILB: Same
    S: Much better if Polamalu gets and stays healthy. If he's healthy, he's still a legit pro bowler. Otherwise, about the same.
    CB: Same - I think getting Allen into the starting lineup will be an upgrade over Lewis. He may give up a few more plays, but he started looking very decisive and comfortable down the stretch last year, and the turnovers started flowing. I think he'll be a good one - kind of like "Ike with hands." Don't underestimate Gay in a #3 role. We have a bunch of young guys who got a trial by fire last season. Odds are that at least one of them improves year on year.

    Other than my assumptions on RB and OLB, which I am 100% sure we will address in the draft and/or free agency, my assessment doesn't even include an infusion of new draft picks. I don't see a team that looks like a disaster. I see a team that needs to look back on how last year ended, and channel the bad taste in their mouths into renewed focus, and if it can stay healthy, it should contend.
     
  18. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Questions to ask yourself and the Steelers organization to be real with yourself?
    Are you confident that Troy will complete a full season, and be productive? Enter Vaccaro
    Are you confident that Lamaar Woodley will play a full PRODUCTIVE SEASON? Enter Jarvis Jones if not Vaccarro at #1
    Are you confident that Cortez Allen and IKE can matchup with super star receivers?
    Are you confident that if the Steelers chose to let Manny walk, that his replacement/s will equal his production?
    Are you confident that Ben R will play a full season, and will buy into what TH is selling?
    Are you confident that we have an adequate LT to protect our 100 million dollar QB?
    Are you confident that our FO will select a starting rb in this draft?
    Are you confident that the TE position for the first half of the season will be void of a superstar, Where will this production come from?
    Are you confident that Worilds will be able to stay on the field a full season and produce? And his back ups are ready for prime time?
    Are you confident that the Steelers FO will give Ben/Haley enough weapons to compete against high caliber playoff teams?
    Are you confident that we will be able to generate a pass rush? Increase our Turn over ratio?
    These are just some of the questions that I have for the Steelers, probably have more but I have dragged on long enough.
     
  19. HinesWardHOF

    HinesWardHOF Well-Known Member

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    answers
    no
    no
    no
    yes
    no
    no
    no
    no
    dont know
    no
    no
    no

    HINES
     
  20. darcrav

    darcrav Well-Known Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6eTTaY1a6M
     
  21. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim

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    Ward, my problem is that I enter each season eternally optomistic. I'm not good at being a realist where the Steelers are concerned. Even when we have a losing season I sit and think we have a chance. A chance for what I have no idea but a chance, none the less! For some reason I just can't help myself but I don't fault you or anyone else for questioning things and look for ways for us to improve!
     
  22. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Thanks ISJ, Nobody wants to see the Steelers win as much as I do, AND WIN BIG. Something that has always
    confused me though. Even though we are 6 TIME SB champ, We cannot attract top tier position coaches?( player development)Another thing that
    is intriguing to me and I am not sure it correlates to the Steelers is that the Steelers seem to run their business as a mom and pop
    store, I am not so sure in this society, that it is feasable? I would like more resources put into SCOUTING all players, And while I am on the subject,
    I am not so sure that Steeler mgmt is on the same page as these modern day players, and I really can't blame them because I am not either.
    I ask myself, if I was gifted and able to play the game at a high level and had choices, would I want to go to a perrenial winner (STEELERS)
    and play for a fair wage or go to Oh lets say Buffalo for a couple bucks more and play for LOSERS? These kids seem to want to go to
    the losers. WHY is that, when we we are a 6time SB champ and have tradition? Are we not communicating to these ball players/agents? I am going
    to bring up Rolondo Mcclain (needs an attitude adjustment) as an example, why were we not in the mix for this player? He would have given us competition
    where we sorely need talent yet not even a whiff? WHY?
     
  23. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    The reason that many players want to chase the largest paycheck instead of going to a proven winner is that the business side of the NFL has pushed guys to chase guaranteed money above all else. It's the only security that they have. Many guys sign contracts and then don't even play past year #1 (see Eric Winston and Laurent Robinson as examples from this offseason). Therefore, they go where they get the most guaranteed money and then try to hang on long enough to collect some of their salary. Whenever you see someone other than a franchise QB sign a huge deal, it's a pretty safe bet that they won't see the big salaries on the back end of that contract. The Steelers pretty much reserve larger amounts of guaranteed money for guys that they want to retain instead of giving it to guys that are coming from other teams. They know what they've got in their own guys, and they only get the big guaranteed dollars when they have proven that they can thrive in the Steelers' system.

    Winning is important to the players that are choosing other teams, but they know that teams without recent winning traditions frequently rise up and become successful. See San Fran's emergence from being mediocre to elite overnight. See Seattle last year. See Atlanta after the drafting of Ryan. It's easy for a player to rationalize taking more money elsewhere because he will go in believing that his new team will be one of those teams that rises up, and he will be a part of it. They're not going to place some sort of premium on being a Steeler when they think they can be as successful elsewhere.

    With respect to McClain, I will admit that I really wanted us to kick the tires on him. Physically, he's a perfect buck LB in our system. However, I will also say that of the many times that I - and other message board posters - wanted to bring a player in, and the Steelers didn't, the team was right and we were wrong at least 70-80% of the time. Therefore, I trust their judgment on those kinds of issues. I've learned over the years that they do, in fact, have a clue, and that their strategy has been proven out in long-term success. One injury plagued 8-8 season shouldn't be enough to shake fans' faith in the franchises' brain trust. My guess is that McClain was never on their radar because 1) while he's a physical match for the position, he was never known as a "film room junkie" who would immediately step in a QB the defense, and 2) they didn't like how he treated his former team. I understand fully and am looking for us to draft a smart, high character ILB in this year's draft to compete at that position.
     

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