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A review of every defender

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Watt Wack, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    https://triblive.com/sports/steeler...mp-preview-new-faces-join-veterans-on-defense

    There were a few names I either forgot or didn't know about on here.

    And a few of these players are a little interesting. And some units are a little concerning, until we see how certain players pan out.

    D-line

    We might have the best 3-4 DEs in franchise history. But so far, it always seems one of them gets hurt. I knew Tuitt had a torn bicep last year, even though the team wouldn't admit it. If we can have a season when both of them are healthy, it would be a huge lift for the D. Alualu was an underrated FA pick up for depth. Walton isn't worthless, but if he's a starter, we are in trouble.

    At NT, hopefully Hargrave is more healthy, as he seemed to regress last season and reportedly had a bad back. Some of you are high on a college back up player in Frazier, we will see if they can shake the lazy out of him. McCullers? Probably won't make the team.

    ILB

    V Williams is not as weak as some believe - he is not the problem with this D. He is one of its better players, to be honest. 88 tackles and 8 sacks is not horse doo doo.

    I think angry red will have a breakout season if he can stay healthy. He will never dazzle you with athletic ability, size or speed, but what he does have is football instincts and the pure desire to hit people. You can't teach that, you just can't.

    If one of those guys falters, I think Bostic is capable. No way he will be as a bad as a one legged LB coming off his couch.

    My dark horse is Mathew Thomas. By all indications, he isn't the brightest bulb on the tree, but you don't lead FSU in tackles two straight years if you stink. That FSU D was pretty sick. Thomas wasn't drafted for reasons, including off the field troubles - and I don't see him making the field this year - but I got my eye on him.

    OLB

    TJ will produce, Bud will underachieve. He has size and speed but no bend. All he can do is run fast in a straight line, which QBs easily evade without worry.

    Chickillo is at least a decent back up, but we are pretty thin after him. It could turn into a real problem.

    S

    Sean Davis is another athletic guy who just doesn't seem to fit anywhere, just like in college. Burnett is probably our best pure safety. We don't even know where Edmunds will play at this point. Berhe is a hitter. Allen will be in the mix.

    CB

    After being weak for years, I finally think we are pretty strong at CB. Haden, Burns, Sutton, Hilton...not bad.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    :hmm:


    Okay. Couple of Confirmation Bias points I need to point out with some omissions left out as well.


    - Fraizer was not lazy at any point during his tenure at Alabama. If he was, Pittsburgh would have skipped him and picked someone else.


    - Stating that Bud will underachieve is very short sighted. Historically dating back to 2000, the teams best pass rusher has come fron the right side; Joey Porter and James Harrison respectively. That being said in addition to Butler likely having Bud attack more given the increased dime/quasi 4-3 looks on defense, look for Bud to have a better season. Health has been his issue.



    - I personally am running out of ways to clarify what is likely both Tomlin's and Butlers endgame plan for Edmunds. That being said, watch and see as I am not going to state it anymore.



    - Sean Davis and Artie both need to produce. That much is true. Tom Bradley will see to that in Training Camp; Sean being moved to his natural position an increased bonus.



    - Brian Allen will likely be one of the biggest beneficiaries from Bradley. It is likely he could be one of our aces on Special Teams this seasons after showcasing some solid skills last season.
     
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  3. MattyMo9

    MattyMo9 Well-Known Member

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    If you think V Williams Big Red and Bostic are a solid group well :shrug:
     
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  4. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why people are always up on big red, dirty red, mean red lol that dude sucks. I think I am more muscular haha


    I just realize that is pretty mean.



    but seriously... eat some steak and get on the sauce like everyone else :D
     
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  5. MattyMo9

    MattyMo9 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think the issue of any of those guys is strength necessarily. It’s that they are slow as dirt and can’t cover or run sideline to sideline
     
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  6. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    Pgh wouldn't draft a lazy player in the 7th? :roflmao:He has potential as a space eater, but not much else.

    https://www.nfl.com/prospects/joshua-frazier?id=32462018-0002-5601-4414-b923e4e052f4
    • Never broke into regular rotation during his time in the program
    • Played in less than 18 percent of the defensive snaps over last two seasons
    • Production was minimal
    • Space taker over play-maker
    • Very gradual and plays at a lethargic pace
    • Rarely gains quick advantages
    • Offers no pass-rush potential

    - Stating that Bud will underachieve is very short sighted. Historically dating back to 2000, the teams best pass rusher has come fron the right side; Joey Porter and James Harrison respectively. That being said in addition to Butler likely having Bud attack more given the increased dime/quasi 4-3 looks on defense, look for Bud to have a better season. Health has been his issue.

    Yea, so many years should we wait for BD to actually produce? 10? Your assertion that his production will go up significantly just from switching sides is amusing.



    - I personally am running out of ways to clarify what is likely both Tomlin's and Butlers endgame plan for Edmunds. That being said, watch and see as I am not going to state it anymore.

    YOU think you know how they are going to use him? THEY don't even know how they are going o use him. It's another gad dang experiment.



    - Sean Davis and Artie both need to produce. That much is true. Tom Bradley will see to that in Training Camp; Sean being moved to his natural position an increased bonus.

    Geez, this Bradley guy must be the 2nd coming of Christ. If he can work the miracles many of you believe he will, you'd think every team in the NFL would be chasing him with mad $.
     
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  7. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    According to you watt we shouldn't win a game. :noose::cool:
     
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  8. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    :hmm:


    Interesting. Quite a bit of both the self serving bias and confirmation bias here; contradictions no less. Here are my own rebuttals for each.


    - Never knew NFL Network was "God" personally when it comes to defining the future of players. Guess players like Mike Hilton, Jesse James or even B.J. Finney are destined to fail then. For that matter, Javon Hargrave also had issues concerning his desire and motor. Those issues have been ironed out. No reason Fraizer cannot do the same, his coach being the same one from the University he played for no less.



    - As I said, some of Pittsburgh's best rusher came from the side Dupree is now playing. His inability to stay healthy has been his issue. Keep in mind he had a career high six sacks last season.


    - I have posted threadicles (articles in a thread) about what Terrell is going to do, how he is going to assist and what this means for the team going forward. As I said, watch and see as I will not be discussing him anymore.


    - Bradley is not a divine entity. What Bradley is though is a fundamentalist who adheres to the principles and fundementals of the game without adhering to the game's current conventions.


    Ultimately though, defenses do take time to develop. Butler has been making good on his promises in terms of fixing it. The pressure and the amount of sacks have been organic but not from the source many of us have been wanting; something I do not have too much of an issue with. We were much better in pass defense last year than in previous years. All that remains is fixing the rush defense.



    To do that, you need not only the right coaching but people as well; something Pittsburgh has done this offseason. As far as I see it, on paper, this team is ready. How this is going to fare in practice though is something we will soon find out in two days time.
     
  10. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  11. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Not Christ but between he and lake the difference will be like Christ and David Copperfield. :cool:
     
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  12. mcam

    mcam Well-Known Member

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    We've had some good lineman in the 3-4 over the years. Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, and Brett Keisel were pretty good. Going back to Joel Steed, Brenston Buckner, etc.

    I like what we have for the most part, but LT Walton #96 got manhandled by the Jaguars O-line. He was a big reason why were so terrible in that game.


    I still think we've had a significant decline with the departure of Lawrence Timmons. I see Vince Williams as an OK functional player at linebacker. I think his sacks came mostly as a byproduct of our system and just doing his job nothing spectacular but good enough most the time.. Actually I'm more excited about watching Bostic play. Think the guy can make some plays if healthy.

    Hopefully players like Tyler Matakevich or other young ILBs can step up to the helm to show some starting potential. I see this as a bit of a concern but hopefully I'm proven wrong.

    I think Dupree is going to surprise some people with some nice play and stats this year. Hear that prediction here now and either hold me accountable or praise me later. Betting on him this year.

    I think TJ will do fine. Excited to see him in his 2nd year.

    I'm hoping Chickillo can step up and make some more plays. He did ok last year, but still has more to show to demonstrate starting potential. We also have some young guys I'm excited about such as Keion Adams. Matthew Thomas right now is a guy that is athletic and nothing more. Think people are overhyping him. Until I see him make plays, I will be skeptical. He might have a role on special teams this year if he makes the cut.

    I'm not necessarily down on Sean Davis. I think he will be fine. I think at Safety at least on paper we are pimping out now. Hopefully these guys can all work together to make a cohesive unit. I think we upgraded there dramatically.

    As for corner, definitely liking the Haden pickup. I think Burns needs to pick it up a notch. Not too many people are grilling him for his lack of production with being a 1st round pick like I hear so much with Dupree and others. I don't think he's played up to standards thus far.

    I am excited about the other corners. Think we got a lot younger and faster. Hopefully our secondary as a whole is a strength of this defense. I'm optimistic, but we need a successful pass rush.
     
  13. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    burns is a solid man corner. terrible at zone, but overall very subpar. Haden is good, not elite but he knows what to do. Hilton is solid.

    if healthy this team can do well but I expect some players dropping like flies and dirty reds coming in lol
     
  14. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    We have some of the worse personell in the league tbh. Majority of our defenders wouldn't start on most teams. We dont have a game changer or playmaker on defense now with shazier gone. Idek who I can point to as the leader on defense. Then to top it off we have bad coaching.
     
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  15. MattyMo9

    MattyMo9 Well-Known Member

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    And I thought I was negative
     
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  16. mcam

    mcam Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with just about everything you stated, except not having a game changer. That is true. We see it. Rod Woodson pointed it out. No Polamalu, No Shazier. No Rod Woodson

    That means someone either has to step up or the offense has to.

    The good news is there is no reason why our offense shouldn't be able to mount up some points this season. We should have the top offense in the league.
     
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  17. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    Personell wise I was talking defense not offense..
     
  18. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    When did we get Keisel and Smith back?
     
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  19. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Heyward and Tuitt are nowhere near Smith and Kiesel. It's not even close. I realize Heyward and Tuitt have had bad luck with injuries, but they have a lot to prove before being lumped in with Smith/Kiesel. I'd rank Nolan Harrison, Kimo Von Oelhoffen, Brentson Buckner and Ray Seals higher than Heyward/Tuitt.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
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  20. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    yup. Tuitt= beast that cant stay healthy Heyward= beast that shrinks in big games lol
     
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  21. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    By any measurement, how is Smith and Keisel better than Cam and Tuitt?
     
  22. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    By me watching them play for their whole careers. By me knowing the kind of system they were in and realizing that sacks were not going to come easy or often for those guys. By me watching them stuff the run over and over. By me watching them create holes for the LB'ers to rush the passer. Smith is one of the greatest 3-4 DE's to play the game. Keisel was also top notch. They are far superior to our current DE's.

    If all you care about is stats and not actually watching the play and analyzing what you see, that's fine, but that's not my measuring stick.
     
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  23. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    Hahahahaha, Yea, but you got the wrong "Smith." Bruce Smith was just a tad better than Aaron. :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
     
  24. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Smith and Keisel were never blown off the line in embarrassing fashion in a HOME field playoff game the way Tuitt/Heyward were vs. Jacksonville.:facepalm:

    Get back with me when Steelers D & D-line prevents Fournette, Hunt and Kamara from rushing for 100+ in 2018.
     
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  25. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    I know you already know this: The Steelers' DL men play differently than they did those years with LaBeau. All they did back then was fill gaps and let the LBs make plays; now they rush the passer much more, as evidenced by Cam getting 12 sacks.
     

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