A little perspective on finding a franchise QB.

fixed, thanks.

 

Yeah, because that whopping 2.9 ypc in the playoffs is legendary. Regardless of your intent, lets take a look at post season rushing yards per attempt for SB winners since 40

2006...3.7
2007...4.1
2008...3.5
2009...2.9
2010...3.9
2011...3.7
2012...4.9
2013....6.5

Or in descending order:

2013...6.5
2012...4.9
2007...4.1
2010...3.9
2006/2011.. 3.7
2008...3.5
2009...2.9

The Steelers are bolded. They've had two of the three worst post season rushing performance of SB winners over the last 8 years. Notice Peyton Manning's year at 4.1 ypc.

 

Warning: long winded.

To me it's simple and the only reason to even debate this is just to have something to talk about,which is fine,after all it is a message board and a damn fine one at that, thanks TTF (I always do that when I get the chance.)

Football has been and forever will be a team sport. Look at how great some of today's QBs are ,you have Manning(both) ,Brady,Rodgers Ben and a couple of up and comers. I've yet to see a QB who has single handedly taken a team on his back to the Super Bowl and win. There has always been help from some aspect of the team. Without getting into specifics ,SB teams have been helped by dominant defenses,high powered offenses,special teams including the kicking game (Vinateri) etc....as great as Peyton is he didn't win one until his teams D became at least respectable and also had a great performance from his running game in the SB. Brady has had plenty of help ,some lucky. He hasn't won since the Pats defense was a strength. There are plenty of examples.

the bottom line is no one can do it on their own. They need help in other areas of the team to become great. Until this team remembers and gets back to the fundamentals like blocking ,tackling and passing,running and catching it won't matter who is at QB,HC,OC,DC. Now with all that being said the onus falls on the HC that's why he has that title. If the players aren't performing like they should it is his job to change that. If he feels the OC or DC is the problem he needs to deal with that as well. I know some might say his hands are tied , but it's his job that is on the line. We all know about his gift of speech ,well he better start putting his stamp on this team. He has nothing to lose at this point "the ship be a sinkin".

I live in NY and the chatter about the Giants and their woes are eerily similar to the same problems we are having. They are questioning Coughlin and some are also going after Gilbride, who has been part of two SB victories. Does that guarantee him keeping his job? (Arians jab). The bottom line is you can point the finger of blame in a lot of directions with this team.No one is above criticism. You win as a team ,you lose as a team. If there is a glaring weakness that is holding this team back the HC has to do something about it.

 

Yeah you gotta have a good d to win it all. Defense wins championships offense sells tickets. That said you gotta have a good qb to win one a great qb to win 2. Ben is among 5 other guys when it comes to winning 2 super bowls and passing for over 30000 yards. If it was all defense the Steelers would have at least 10 rings by now. If you don't ha e a good qb you don't have a chance. How many hearse did the ravens have great defenses yet finished with losing records due to boller? How many years did the Steelers have great defenses and not win the super bowl.

 

Franchise QB's can sometimes be ruined early on and not make the list. Guys like Jason Campbell and David Carr come into the league on bad teams and get hammered. Some players such as Jim Plunkett eventually overcome that but it's interesting how many don't.

 

You do realize that Ben had his worst year under Cowher the year after the 06 SB win where I think he lead the league in interceptions. Maybe he has regressed lately, but to say he was at his best under Cowher is wrong.

 

You know I am beginning to wonder if Ben is on his decline as well, 1-8 in his last 9 games is not good and I question whether Ben really can play in a defined system (one of the silly things always made about Ben is he was a game manager - the way Ben plays QB is anything but being a game manager, the guy is more of a gunslinger).

But then I take pause, because your statement that we could win w/anyone at QB w/those defenses is nonsense. Last I checked Cowher regularly had Defenses that were Top 5 and yet he never had a QB that could be enough of a gamer to push them over the top. Also some basic facts you should remember about Ben. The guy has a career 92.5 efficiency rating - I checked that against current QBs other than guys like Wilson or Griffen III who have only been in the league for 1 year and that QB rating only ranks behind Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Romo, and Rivers. Guys like Flacco, Eli Manning linger in the 80's. And Romo and Rivers don't count because they have done squat in the playoffs.

The mark of an elite QB is a guy who wins - including the postseason, consistently puts up good numbers, and has the capacity to be clutch - i.e. a guy who can put a team on his back at times. From what I see of Ben he meets all three criteria and he has done it over a 10 year career. Sorry, I don’t share the same cavalier attitude towards jettisoning a guy who at a minimum was an elite QB and may still very well be a franchise QB for this team for 3-4 more years.

 

Look no further than to DC. Kirk Cousins has all the tools. Can make all the throws.

 

how about ryan mallott from the patriots for sanders? would they bite?

 

Since both the Steelers and BA left Hoyer slip through their fingers, maybe we otta think about bringing back Caleb TerBush. Hell, he can at least play wide reciever in a pinch. Who knows maybe he could be the next Johnny U. or Hines Ward. LOL

 

mallott is at that point of sitting and learning from brady and belichek for several years now. he's never played, but has knowledge. we didn't know ben was a franchise qb when we took the chance on him. nobody knows how these picks will workout at the time. i'd rather put the future in hands of landry jones and mellott, then gradkowski. two guys with at least upside to show they are capable. grad has no upside of ever turning into a franchise qb.

 

One things for sure ... if they do get someone else, they best be able to run for their life for a few years. If Ben does get hurt, I'd rather see Grad take the beating this year; Landry is no where near ready yet.

 

it's not all about just this year is the point. sanders for mallott, would benefit both parties. short term help for the pats, and possible long term help for us. it also keeps our first round pick available for a LT. it put's moye on the field and brings up another big young target for ben in Justin brown. which helps the run game with his blocking ability.

I may be going out on a limb here but I don't think so, beachum at LT will help turn this passing game around. it should buy ben a little more time and allow his pocket presence to work for him again. what I mean is he won't have to worry about the rush from behind while dealing with the rush from gilberts side which he can see. he can then move accordingly. while it may not always be perfect with beachum, it will be tons better then adams at this point. the kid can move and has a low center of gravity. he's a good pass blocker.

 

Well Mac, makes sense & that's exactly why the Steelers won't end up doing it.

 

every 1st round QB in the last 7 years

Brandon Weedon, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Vince Young, Matt Leinart

vs the ones that have had a some success

Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Jay Cutler

that's 7-13 record...Maybe 8-12 if you want to move Stafford to the PLUS category and only Flacco has the ring...not sure he even belongs in the PLUS side....no way do I try and move Ben yet.

 

Flacco doesn't imo he is 25th in completion percentage and 27th in qbr

 

I wish people would go back and watch the playoff games leading up to our Superbowl's and then try to say we could of done it withoutBen. He may not have had the greatest Superbowl's, but he was great in getting us there.

 

Thanks KJ! I am so tired of the anti-Ben commentary. I have posted this before, but Bradshaw only completed 9 passes in each of his first 2 SB's, and threw 3 INT's in his last SB! Not exactly tearing it up. The difference is TB had great players around him on offense, 4 Hall of Famers I believe. Who has Ben had around him that will make it into the HOF? The guy has made the best of it with a team that has been offensively clueless for decades.

 

way back someone said we don't get by Indy in 05 without our defense
who made the game saving tackle that day?

 

Ben's best days are behind him. He was never a consistently good/great QB. Ben doesn't appear to have the "it" factor that made him a good QB for the team. He had at least 3 opportunities to lead the team to possible wins in the 4th QT last season and threw 3 picks to seal the games. He's a turnover machine this season. Even if the turnover trend doesn't continue he doesn't have the ability to lead a top 5 scoring offense. Sandlot isn't conducive to consistent scoring offense.

The team struggles are magnified now that the defense doesn't appear to have the ability to carry the team anymore. Anytime the Steelers defense finished outside of the top 5 in ppg the team didn't make the playoffs. That tread looks like it will continue this season. The Steelers only saving grace may be that no team in the division appears to have the ability to run away with the division. 9-7 may win the AFC north.

 

From my post above, I give Ben his due as an elite (at least former elite) QB, but one of the reasons this team is clueless on offense is because Ben ad libs maybe half (maybe more) of his plays. It is hard to build cohesion on offense, especially with the line when a QB constantly plays that way.

Also - Jerome Bettis will be a HOF (although his best years were before Ben). Hines Ward may make the HOF. Ben has at times had a host of other quality players on offense around him including Heath Miller, the franchise's best TE ever, Santonio Holmes, Alan Faneca, and Jeff Hartings.

 

So when was the last time we had a good offense? The issue is not Ben. The issue is that the Rooneys over the years do not do a good job on the offensive side of the ball. They do a phenomenal job on the defensive side, but not on the offensive side. Before people get offended with my critique of the Rooneys, ask yourself - when was the last time we had a top notch offense?

 

... and if/when Tomlin is gone, he'll be replaced by another "defensive minded" HC. We can only hope that whoever replaces Tomlin, at least recognizes their weaknesses and has extra help on the offensive side of the ball (ex: Bob Stoops with two Co-Offensive Coordinators).

 

You want to separate the offensive issues from Ben he is the QB of the offense. It's difficult to go that route because if Ben wasn't part of the problem then the offense would had been much better at production top notch points. Ben's play was a big problem in the first 4 games this season, specifically the turnovers.

Ben showed flashes of being a good/great QB throughout his career. As a result, the offense looked good and produced points. The issue is that Ben never played with the consistency necessary to elevate the offense to greater heights. As a result, the offense could never produce points with the best offenses in the league.
I believe that a QB can change the way a defense approaches an offense. IMO, Ben's tendency to hold the ball to long and inaccuracy are still problems to this day. Three reasons why I believe he holds the ball to long is because he isn't always mentally prepared for the defenses he faces, he likes his WR's to have two steps on defenders, and he doesn't always like to throw with anticipation of when his WR's will break open. There are times he did all those things well. He never did them well consistently.

The organization drafted plenty of good weapons for Ben. The QB is the key to how much the weapons around him produce. The QB can be the key to the pass rush he faces. The QB is the key to offensive production.