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A deeper look at Tomlin

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Stone, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Tomlin also got back to a Super Bowl in his 4th season, yet some folks try to discredit that result as well. There’s no sound logic behind it, just a rationale constructed to satisfy a pre-drawn conclusion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  2. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Yeah only the knuckle heads that want to diminish what Tomlin helped this team accomplish spit that gibberish about Cowher's players. As far as I'm concerned they were Steelers players.

    Another coach could had easisly succeeded or failed with those players. The team was far from the dominant force that fans some fans remember.

    The irony is that Tomlin wouldn't had been able to lead any team anywhere if Tomlin were as incompetent as the knuckle heads believe.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82

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    Quite.

    You could add in the injury to Palmer in the 05 playoff game with the Bengals. None of that does down the end result. Rather, every season has some core aspects (e.g. how good the team is on paper, how well they play generally) and some accidental aspects (injuries, flukes, other teams stepping up on any given Sunday, etc.). This is why, more often than not, we don't get the same Superbowl winner in consecutive years. And also why having a good team is no guarantee of making the playoffs, let alone winning it all.
     
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  4. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    1. There is such a thing as the Super Bowl hangover and it effects most teams who played in it, let alone won it.
    2. In 2006 Cowher's wife was ill, he moved his family to N. C., and the team lost discipline and focus.
    3. Belichick kicks everyone's backside, especially Tomlin.
    4. If you think "he won with Cowher's team" is aggravating, try listening to "Tomlin's never had a non-winning season".
    It amazes me that people are good with "non-losing"!

    I'm so proud of my little Johnny! He has never finished in last place by himself!
     
  5. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    8-8 is NOT last place. It amazes me that people aren't good with non-losing after all the injuries we had last season.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  6. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Stone completely forgets about the other coaches with given allpro talent that haven't/didn't do squat. Probably not the best idea to compare him to other coaches that was gifted a franchise QB or top defense. He stacks up with the winners.
     
  7. Steelsax

    Steelsax Well-Known Member

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    Cowher and family moved to N.C. in 2007 "after" he retired and his wife was not diagnosed with cancer until 2010. So that had nothing to do with the team losing its dicipline and focus. BTW, I'm not bashing Cowher - but he did get his butt kicked by Belichick many a time - no comment on that? Still, I thought he was a great coach and I think the same of Tomlin.
     
  8. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82

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    As a side note, I seem to remember the off-season with the biggest tirade of negativity on here was after we lost the AFCCG. Most threads made out we were literally the worst team in the league who finished second in the AFC by accident.
     
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  9. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    I think it's because the playoffs were in our grasp and we failed to capitalize......which is very Tomlinesque.
     
  10. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    The Cowhers moved to NC in 2006 because of her declining health and wanting to be closer to home.

    https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/kaye-cowher-obituary?pid=178402457
     
  11. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Okay Runatic:smiley1:, give me three examples of a coach who was given a Super Bowl contender and then later given the talent Tomlin was given?
     
  12. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    Does Norv Turner count as 3, or only 1?
     
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  13. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    In this context he doesn't count period:smiley1:
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  14. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    #1. John Madden

    #2. John Hairball

    Do we really need 3 Stoned?
     
  15. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Fail!

    So far you are at zero!
     
  16. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82

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    Why not, out of interest? The 2000 Redskins were the “dream team” after all.

    What about...
    Bill Callahan at the Raiders
    Rich Kotite at the Jets
    Andy Reid at the Eagles
    Bud Carson at the Browns
     
  17. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    First of all, you can't count being given anything relating to the Jets or browns as good. Second, none of those coaches were given both criteria of a Super Bowl caliber team followed by a collection of some of the best talent the NFL has ever seen. You could argue that a few coaches were given good teams but never were they then followed by superior talent some 6 or 8 years later.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  18. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82

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    I've already disputed your claim that Tomlin was given all of that - it's a bit hyperbolic.

    The problem with your dual criteria is that it assumes longevity. Most coaches "given" a superbowl calibre team tend to have bad results a few seasons after. The point about someone like Callahan or Carson was that they had Superbowl-calibre teams: the Browns were coming off consecutive AFC championship games, which they only lost by each by a whisker, before nosediving under Carson, and Callahan went to the Superbowl in his first season before everything falling apart.

    What this tells us is that having a quality squad alone doesn't mean you're guaranteed success.

    Reid is perhaps a better comparison, because even though he wasn't gifted a team, he had Superbowl-calibre teams in his early years, then later had the "dream team" of 2011.



    Just thinking about it, a less negative comparison might be Tom Flores?
     
  19. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    Well, he was handed a 14-2 team from Schottenheimer. Then again, it's the Chargers so, even Lombardi would have failed with that jinxed franchise.
    He did kill two other franchises. Not as much talent though.....
     
  20. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    I'm starting to think you just don't like Tomlin...…..?
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  21. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he was handed the 14-2 team that couldn't go anywhere which I think was because of Rivers, but unlike the Steelers, the Chargers have a short leash.

    I like how Tomlin dresses well, his hair always looks good, and how he always speaks well in press conferences.

    I don't like how he never has the team ready to start the season, allows divas to run the show, can't manage the clock, can't win challenges, can't win the big games, and generally mis-manages the team.
     
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  22. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    But that's kinda the point.....no coach has ever been handed the reigns of a Super Bowl caliber team backed by the most solid organization in the NFL (who doesn't cheat).

    The other coaches who were handed great teams also inherited a cluster **** like Al Davis, Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder, Dean Spanos, etc.
     
  23. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82

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    At this point, you’re just changing things to fit your narrative.

    Callahan didn’t lose because of Al Davis, he lost because he couldn’t sustain what Gruden had built. Unlike what Flores did with Madden’s team.

    Carson didn’t **** the Browns up because of ownership, he did it by himself.

    It’s less about other organisations having shorter leashes, and more about coaches performing dreadfully with teams expected to do better.
     
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  24. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of what you believe I made to fit and what I believe you made to fit, nobody has presented a case for a coach who has been handed anything close to what Tomlin has been handed in his time with the Steelers. But no worries, that's just because it doesn't exist:smiley1:
     
  25. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82

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    I enjoy the trips back through NFL history, though, so the effort isn’t entirely fruitless :drinks:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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