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A deeper look at Tomlin

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Stone, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    In ten years I will still hold the same opinion of MT unless he miraculously wins another Lombardi for the Steelers. Until that happens he is an underachiever with the amount of talent that he had on this team.
     
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  2. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Well not by everyone. Cowher probably still has some critics. :shrug:
     
  3. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that you say he is a good coach in your first sentence and then explain why he is not the rest of your post.
     
  4. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying MT won't be taking the Steelers to the SB again?
     
  5. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure that if this was a general discussion forum , as opposed to a Steelers forum, and people kept posting that the sun rises in the west, it would be an ongoing debate as well:smiley1:

    As for the next sap, I guess it will depend on whether he makes chicken salad or chicken **** out of the chicken he is given.

    I doubt very seriously if Steeler fans will ever admire Tomlin, cheerleaders might....but not fans:hehehe:
     
  6. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    I think he means that Tomlin is capable of being a good coach but somehow can't seem to get it right?

    You know.....like when your high school guidance counselor calls you into his office and tells you that you are capable of so much more! But Tomlin isn't in high school any more.
     
  7. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    This thread has gone the direction that every discussion about Tomlin goes.

    Side "A" points out that the fact that Tomlin has done so little with so much.....

    Side "B" points out the fact that Tomlin has a high winning percentage......

    The reason I posted this was to see if we could have some legitimate conversation referencing another NFL head coach in the modern era who has been given similar opportunity.....and what they did with it.

    There is a hint in the above dichotomy ;)
     
  8. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But Big Ben might. :rawk:
     
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  9. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Can you admire him for not screwing up the 2 he was lucky to be a part of? :shrug:
     
  10. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    That's a tough question my friend! But I like the way you put it:smiley1: Given what he has been handed, how could you screw it up "every" year?:smiley1:

    It's like in the NBA when they all slap hands and high five, after a free throw attempt; even when they miss it. It's like having an appreciation party for a guy who goes to work most of the time......and hasn't been caught stealing from the company.:drinks:
     
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  11. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    He didn't take us there to begin with. Cowher's team allowed him to go as a chaperone. We will NEVER get back to the SB with a Tomlin-bungled team.
     
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  12. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    And he made sure none of the kids got pregnant!:hehehe:
     
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  13. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    Tomlin threads always go this way...

    One thing I'm interested in, as a slightly different angle, is the assumption that Tomlin was given a great team so couldn't fail to win a SB with.
    I'm not necessarily denying it, but let's play devils advocate here:

    In 2006 Steelers went 8-8 (Ben's issues yes, generally ill-disciplined play, also lost Kimo, Hope, Randal El, and Maddox as a back up. Holmes and Colon the only decent draft picks; Keisel was an unproven entity moved into starter position)
    They cut Porter in 2007, when Harrison was also a relatively unknown entity. In 2007 the starting RB was Najeh Davenport (as Parker got injured; Ryan Clark and Aaron Smith were also on IR). For the first few seasons they had Sean Mahan and Justin Hartwig at C.

    Now, naturally we can rebalance that with some of the superstars - Ben on the up, Troy in his prime, Ward and Holmes, Heath, Farrior, Ike etc.

    But I think we oversimplify things a bit when we say Tomlin was handed the keys to a Ferrari. He was handed a good team and a solid organisation with a winning mentality, which is much more than most new coaches are. But the Steelers weren't guaranteed to be in the Superbowl every year. Hell, they only got there in 2005 via the Wild Card after the wheels coming off halfway through the season.
     
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  14. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    That’s how you read it, but it’s not what I said. The whole part about it being “maddening” to me is because he is successful enough to get us to the precipice of being a top team very consistently, but keeps falling just short. I.e. good, but not great. If he wasn’t a good coach at all, it wouldn’t be maddening. I personally don’t think it’s even debatable that he’s good when you look at the hard evidence. I just wonder if “good” is his ceiling.
     
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  15. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    I have no issue with calling MT a decent NFL coach that did some real good things in his tenure. I believe he has hit his plateau unfortunately, and its time to get some new leadership and ideas in the organization. Add some new assistant coaches in there for good measure. I firmly believe that we will continue to do as our trend has shown over the past few years. That is my belief but what do I know for sure, nothing. We'll see what happens in 2020 if I am thinking right or not.
     
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  16. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    I think you nailed it. Good but not great. Steeldeal mentioned earlier somewhere that his supporting cast throughout his tenure could use improvement. A new angle for me to look at as I never really thought about it that way. Could he have become greater if he surrounded himself with better football minds? Idk, Dick Lebeau knew defense pretty damn good. Offense? Does he even care about offense? Or does he just delegate it to someone else? Sometimes I wonder because of the play calling on the field.
     
  17. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    I want MT gone just as much anyone but you got to credit where credit is due. I get what you're saying about his having a talented team he took to the SB but so many things can happen even with a talented team that prevents them from going the distance. If anything you can say he didn't f things up with what he had (as a minimum). MT got an opportunity gift wrapped to him and he made good on it. That's how I look at it and also that he has peaked as far as going anywhere in the post season again.
     
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  18. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I agree with this. It’s hard to make it to a Super Bowl, and even harder to win it. He made it two of his first four seasons. We were a Mendy fumble and a failed two minute drill away from winning both. That’s really good. That can’t happen if the head coach sucks.
     
  19. SteelerNole

    SteelerNole Well-Known Member

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    Could be worse. We could’ve had any of Cleveland’s past 15 coaches.
     
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  20. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    Some people seem to believe the Steelers were a dominant force that simply couldn't lose before Tomlin came along.
     
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  21. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Talking nonsense :facepalm::facepalm:
     
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  22. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    There is one key factor you didn't include for 2006. Cowher's wife was dying and his mind simply wasn't on the Steelers. But one thing is for sure, Tomlin was handed a damn good team, something very few coaches have had the luxury of.
     
  23. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    Here is a tid-bit that should sum it up pretty well:

    Cowher coached 261 (240 + 21) games for the Steelers and won 12 playoff games ...... one playoff win for every 21.75 games coached.

    Tomlin has coached 223 (208 + 15) games for the Steelers and won 8 playoff games ......one playoff win for every 27.88 games coached.

    1. Cowher inherited a team in the dumpster, Tomlin inherited a Super Bowl caliber team.
    2. Cowher had some good talent in his time here, Tomlin has had some of the best talent the NFL has ever seen.
    3. Cowher produced players and an environment to be proud of, Tomlin produced a three ring circus which embarrassed Steeler fans.
    4. But!!!!!!!!! Cowher had three losing seasons, Tomlin has not had any......and THAT'S apparently all that counts!
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/CowhBi0.htm
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/TomlMi0.htm
     
  24. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    My point was actually that there's an argument the team wasn't as good as some make out. It had a number of playmakers, but also some notable weak spots. We had qualified for the play-offs twice in the previous 4 seasons. The defense was strong but a number of players we now see as greats were only just coming into their own.

    (Also, I think Kaye Cowher was diagnosed in 2010. I do think Cowher lost some intensity after winning the SB, but we also had poor play and dumb mistakes killing us throughout that season)
     
  25. Stone

    Stone Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I just think that the poor play and dumb mistakes may have been the result of Cowher's lack of focus due to his wife's worsening condition and moving the family, etc. She died in 2010.

    We all know how NFL players will slack off when they are not watched, kinda like our teams under Tomlin.
     

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