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3-4 defense is cooked. We need to switch to 4-3.

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SDOT, Jan 12, 2021 at 5:28 PM.

  1. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    1) We can't keep 4 linebackers healthy ever. D-line men are less injury prone unless your last name is Tuitt.

    2) We can't stop the run. Heyward and Tuitt are useless. We need 4 big bodies to stop the run.

    3) We keep getting linebackers lined up on slot WRs.


    I remember the off-season after the Jags loss and we looked at the snap breakdown and we are in Nickel majority of the time anyways in this pass happy league. We need to just switch to a 4-3 base defense to stop the run. Heyward and Tuitt aren't getting the job done.
     
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  2. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    [​IMG]



    Mhmm..


    How about BOTH Base Defenses are cooked?! I am running out of ways to say this due to the fact that the game has changed so much.... so I will just say it. Scheme is irrelevant.



    Matchups dictate the scheme. Therefore, you need the personnel to create favorable matchups in your favor and said matchups have to be done organically via the player as opposed to the artifical way of using the scheme to dictate the matchup itself; Keith Butlers renowned "Linebackers on Receivers" being the pinnacle of this asinine methodology. Not doing so will be your undoing.



    Such players like Minkah Fitzpatrick, Isaiah Simmons, Derwin James, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Jalen Ramsey (not just a boundary corner), Jamal Adams and to a lesser extent Darnell Savage Jr. epitomize the evolution of personnel matchups. That said, it is not limited to the back end as players like Aaron Donald and T.J. Watt create matchup issues no matter where they attack ones formation.
     
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  3. Animus

    Animus Active Member

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    The game is evolving and fast. Thinking it's time to look at the 3-3-5 as the base set. Spread offenses are here to stay so gotta look towards spread defense to counter that. You can come up with exotic blitzes out of the 3-3-5 nickel set. Going this route makes resigning Hilton and/or Sutton all the more important. Against teams like the Chiefs we're likely in the nickel 80% of the time anyways.
     
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  4. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    If the trend has continued that's what we are in majority of the time. I haven't looked at the snap breakdown this year but they were in Nickel majority of the time. Difference is if we were a base 4-3 defense then we could run 4-2-5 which would be a lot better especially against the run imo.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. chris2fer

    chris2fer Well-Known Member

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    Won’t you miss watching Vince Williams trying to cover wide receivers.
     
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  6. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Our defense is fine, the playoff scheming and adjusting is not.
     
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  7. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    If we are pulling a DL or LB you still need someone who can show up in run defense.

    Ryan Clark and Ed Reed were the deep center fielders, but they were known to seek and destroy runners.

    Who do we have on this team that does that?
     
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  8. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    3 - 4 is fine. It's the way it's being schemed that's not. One thing is having 1 nose, & De that can't hold the point of attack...on the run game they look like they are on roller skates. I'll say again Heyward has never been that great at the run....he's Dang good at pass rushing...well...most the time, but since the day he got here he's been lacking in the run game. Sure he's improved, but not enuff. Again I'm talking running game. This with the 2 biggest running teams in our division.
     
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  9. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Nobody
     
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  10. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Has casey Hampton or aaron smith ever look like they are on skates? Same for ngata... I think not.






    2008 playoff run (real defense)

    9 sacks 5 int 3ff and 61 tots points
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021 at 10:41 PM
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  11. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    That is when Renegade was RENEGADE!

    Seriously, they should just retire it ... it will never be the same.
     
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  12. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    It’s amazing how things work in cycles. It’s been a few years since the board was overrun by switch to a 4-3 posts.
     
  13. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    Well we've lost two playoff games now because we can't stop the run. Something has to change. Oh right this is the Steelers... Tomlin will be the coach. Butler will be the DC mascot. Fichtner will still suck. We will still be in the 3-4 and by playoff time 2 of the 4 linebackers are out for the year and using 2nd and 3rd strings. Tuitt and Heyward will be getting bullied by randoms off the street.
     
  14. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Butler needs to go. Why is the head coach calling the defense? That should say it right there. I have never thought butler was a capable DC. :cool:
     
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  15. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Need to go 4 or 5 DL depending on who your playing , those DL need to be big and strong as to not get knocked into the LB'S .. The LB'S need to be fast more like a SS... The SS needs to be a great run supporter..Throw the Cover 2 out the window it's weak against the run weak against the pass and is horrid against PA ..Need stud CB'S who can play press to disrupt timing ...

    The game is slanted towards the O so we need to fix the OL 1st. use PA try to control the clock then we will need almost a complete rebuild on D as well starting the next season...
     
  16. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Last 2 playoff games

    about 37-38 points given up after turnovers

    145 rushing yards allowed average

    0 sacks 0 int 0 fumbles


    Good defense my ass lol


    Rams vs Seahawks the Rams had 5 sacks with Donald at 2.

    meanwhile watt poking his butt during the playoffs smh
     
  17. Mike T

    Mike T Well-Known Member

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    Its not just the game evolving. The league is tailoring the rules to create more offense as that creates more tv ratings. If you think for one second the rules are for safety concerns i have some ocean front property to sell you in the dessert.

    Make no mistake that with the legalization of sports gambling your gonna see even more weird and BS rules as well. The NFL is greedy. They have a multi billion dollar business and they still want more. They will milk it for all they can while destroying the game without realizing it.

    You could put 15 players out there on defense and they will still change the rules to accommodate offense. This is just where the NFL wants the game to go.
     
  18. Mike T

    Mike T Well-Known Member

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    This defense also played the equivalent of two seasons worth of football this year cause our offense couldn't sustain a drive 99% of the time. Imagine if you had to play twice as much and still played at a high level for most of the year. They got tired and fatigued and injured man. They might be the best of the best when it comes to athletes but they are still all human and if you over work anyone in any job cause others aren't pulling their weight then there will always be a collapse at some point and production will suffer.
     
  19. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    Yea the 3rd ranked defense in the NFL is cooked. :facepalm:

    Not many defenses can perform at a high level when you lose 3 starting LB's for most of the season. Add in the loss of our best corner against cleveland, a rusty back up ILB, and a crap game plan and you have your self a blow out to a team that didn't deserve to be in the playoffs.
     
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  20. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is so Teams have to change how they play Defense.. Almost to a point in run on me all you want I bet when you get inside the 10 you can't run or pass...The way you do that is not allow big plays and have Big DL that can stand their ground with DB'S who can play man and also tackle..A very hard recipe , but the best help a Defense has is a short field the way you get good at that is Single HIgh get as many guys in the box as you can his job is just stop the TD until the D gains that extra Defender the back of the Endzone...AT which point the Single High is now in the box pretty much as well....

    The quick passing game takes the pass rush out of the equation,, the first thing a DC must realize is we have to play some sort of Man or Man/zone concepts okay , but any zone will be shredded thus meaning DB'S are the most valuable tool not LB'S or pass rushers..The Steeler approach has been LB'S first then pass rush then DB'S it's exactly why we get lit up in the playoffs...Oh and you can't get these Edmunds kind of good at all , but not good enough at any type DB'S.. Draft DB'S who excel at run stopping,draft DB'S who excel at man coverage, draft a FS who is Super fast can catch 99 % of the NFL ... Then you run schemes that get the guys doing what they do best ..ie Minkah is a Robber not a deep Safety or the strong run support guy so any scheme that requires him to do those throw it in the trash it's the wrong scheme...Starting with Cover 2..
     
  21. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    I don’t buy that. Players weren’t in position, lots of mismatches. Week before we get the sacks and hold them to 24 in a must win for the browns.
     
  22. Romans5:8

    Romans5:8 Well-Known Member

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    I think the 3-4 is fine, personally. It's the personnel that's lacking.

    Don't get me wrong, Heyward and Tuitt and Alualu are good players...but what we are lacking (and have lacked for a long time) is a solid NT. We haven't had one of those since Hampton left. I have been begging (figuratively) the Steelers to draft this position (high) for years now.

    I really think that even with our running game woes, if we would have been able to consistently stop the run we would have been a threat to win it all this year. That's why I would prioritize solidifying our run defense over our own running game, personally.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 1:27 PM
  23. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    This reminds me of the Penguins. They play an offensive/fun style of play in the regular season and do very well. Then come playoff time when teams are really trying and playing defense they got nothing.

    Same thing here. Steelers defense is solid until the playoffs then they get exposed. Teams run all over us. We can't stop the run. Also, I guess you ignored the point of playing a 4-3 because less LBs we need to keep healthy. Since we clearly can't keep 4 healthy EVER. D-line men are more durable.
     
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  24. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    I think someone mentioned Alualu had a knee that was bothering him down the stretch ... so yeah, he isn't a true NT, he is older, and his knees can't take that kid of abuse.

    I would definitely be looking for someone, unless Isaiaha Buggs or Carlos Davis that guy?
     
  25. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    How is keeping 4 Lb's any different than keeping 4 healthy DL? 11 players start on defense no matter your system. Your logic is flawed.

    The inability to stop the run vs the browns probably had something to do with being down 28 points in the 1st Q and a LB corp that was devastated by injury.

    Using your same logic I'm guessing 28-30 other teams also need to scrap their defense and fire their coordinators? :facepalm:
     

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