2012 Supplemental Draft

The NFL Supplemental Draft is this Thursday and I wanted to throw out the names of those players eligible and discuss if any could be fits for the Steelers.

Here is the list:

Boise State DB Quaylon Ewing
Utah WR Josh Gordon
Syracuse RB Adam Harris
Iowa State OT Adrian Haughton
Carson-Newman LB Larry Lumpkin
Georgia DE Montez Robinson
McMurray WR Houston Tuminello
TCU RB Ed Wesley.

Most of the above list will not get "drafted" except for Josh Gordon. I started this thread to discuss him in the context of the Steelers and their current roster.

For those that don't feel like looking him up:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90107&draftyear=2013&genpos=WR

He is a very big receiver (6'-4", 220 lbs.) and raw and probably has some off-field issues. In a lot of ways he is very similar to Ahmad Brooks the linebacker selected by Cincinnati with a 3rd round supplemental pick a few seasons ago. Brooks had similar NFL talent, but some character red flags and transfers in his past. Brooks has turned into a decent pro (both at Cincinnati when healthy and now with San Francisco).

The question is really not how interested the Steelers should be (they always be looking to improve the roster) but also how much they want to spend. In my opinion, there is a pretty big opening right now for the #5 WR spot. Even after counting Batch and Rainey making the roster, we could use a bigger, gunner, special teams player at #5 receiver. Clemons or Maize are in the mix for the job although I think Maize is undersized for my tastes. But I also have to be realistic about both Clemons and Maize are low on the talent level (being a 7th rounder and UFA respectively).

Josh Gordon is currently being talked about as a 3rd round supplemental selection, but that's too rich for my blood. Not with the off-field baggage. But is he worth the Steelers putting in a 4th round bid or even a flyer 5th round bid to see what happens? I think it's worth a discussion.

I am on-board for sure putting a 5th round bid on the kid, even with the troubles. There is too much talent there not to and he could fill a huge need for this team moving forward as a tall, red-zone target. I am even wallowing on possibly submitting a 4th round bid. With the Wallace contract still not resolved. With Antonio Brown on the horizon and not a red zone "plus" player, how thin are we at receiver in 2014? That could be the time this kid starts to pay dividends. And isn't using a mid-round pick on a receiver in 2013 likely anyways? Considering all the issues? Why not carry Gordon on the roster or even the inactive list week-to-week to learn on system and be one-up on all the 2013 rookies? You pay later but get the guy a year early.

I think that's why I'm leaning towards a 4th round bid. If it doesn't work out, okay. If Clemons shows enough and beats him out, I'm okay with that too. If Gordon is a real knucklehead, I'm not losing the farm (it's just a 4th rounder). It's probably a long shot we get him for that price anyhow and we'll never know if the Steelers submit a bid or not.

But I think I want to go on record with my opinion none-the-less.

deljzc
http://www.deljzc.blogspot.com

 

draft scout had his acual height at 6-2 3/4. we have several redzone targets here. we have several h-back type wr's too. i'd have to decline a draft pick for more of what we have.

 

We have red zone targets? Really?

Inside the Redzone: Wallace has 3 TD's last season. Brown has 1 TD. Miller has 2 TD. Cotchery has 2 TD. Emmanuel Sanders has 2 TD. Ward had 2 TD.

Does that sound like we have a red zone target or a mish-mash of targets? That's 12 total passing TD receptions from our top SIX passing targets. Do you know how many red zone TD's Rob Gronkowski had? 12 by himself.

I would argue the weakest parts of Wallace AND Brown's game is inside the redzone when the field and space tighten up. I think Miller is decent and Cotchery is crafty like Ward so that's a wash.

While I blame Arians as much as the next person for our Red Zone issues last season, it was more than just playcalling. We have personnel issues in the red zone as well. We are not built for a tight field on offense. Our receivers are not built for it and we lack pass receiving talent if we go 2 TE sets.

It is a pretty glaring weakness on our team right now. I would love a big-bodied guy that high points the ball and has strong hands to throw fades or slants to. That's what this team needs. And I guarantee we will invest more than a 4th rounder over the next two drafts looking for it.

 

Some teams split out their random tall players to WR and throw them fades, because there's simply no one on defense that can match their height. The Panthers used to do it with Julius Peppers because he was tall and athletic, but most of the time he just looked ridiculous because he didn't actually have any receiver chops or body control. But don't you think that's worth a shot with Miller or Saunders? Both standing 6'5", they'd be anywhere from 3-6 inches taller than most guys covering them. Both have good hands and feet and body control. Saunders showed he can go up for the high ones and come down in bounds against KC. They don't have WR speed, but they don't need it from inside the 5 yard line. What they do have are big bodies, long arms, soft hands and good coordination. Sounds good for a fade route to me.

Why do you suppose we've never tried that, and do you think it's worth a shot?

As for Gordon, looks like he not only has off the field problems, but he's something of a project at receiver. Raw route runner, 1 season experience. I don't think I'd even drop a 5th on him, not that I've seen any tape. Doesn't sound like he's a better answer than Toney Clemons, who is already here, and even that guy will have to fight for a spot. I don't see any way in hell the guy sees the field as a rookie. We might well need to look for a tall guy in the coming years, but I'm willing to wait for someone less risky and with more height.

 

It's not like Clemons or whoever wins the #5 WR spot is going to contribute much in 2012 either. And I would easily say based on the information available, Gordon is a much better prospect than Clemons. More physical gifts, bigger, stronger.

Look, I liked the Clemons pick. I didn't know much about him heading into the draft, but he's right up our alley with what we needed. He provides some height and size to the receiver core and he looks like he can spot duty kick returning as well. Gordon can do the same but probably has a much higher upside than Clemons ever will.

Gordon is a project. But we are using a 2013 pick to start that process NOW rather than using a 2013 pick to start that process in 2013. I guess I don't see any negatives because there is no one on the roster at the #5 WR spot that I am really worried about saving or think will turn into a big-time contributor for us. I think Clemons or Maize is a real long-shot as is.

There are some scouts who think based on the film from 2010, Gordon was BETTER than Kendall Wright at Baylor that season. That teams rolled coverage towards Gordon. Wright was a friggin' 1st round pick.

Is there risk? Of course. Is this a guarantee? No way.

But there is some reward here if we think towards 2013, 2014 and 2015 while this kid is under his 4-year rookie contract. He would have no pressure to produce right away. We have a decent WR core in front of him that seem to be good workers and would teach him the right way. Brown, Sanders and Cotchery look like true professionals to me. Wallace is doing a good job improving his game. That's a good environment to be around.

And with the uncertainty of Wallace and Brown's contracts and the fact I think they lack something in the red zone together, having this guy in the system might not be such a bad idea. 6'-3", 220 is a big receiver. There are things you can do as an offense with that on the field.

All I'm looking for is value and ways to improve the team talent level without sacrificing anything. I certainly admit if Clemons really flashed some ability at OTA's and the coaches really liked what they saw, maybe they pass on Gordon. But to me that means Clemons has to be a lock to make the team right now. If we get to August and there is no clear #5 wide receiver and we're pushing Rainey into that spot (which I don't like) and this Gordon kid gets picked with a 5th rounder and makes another squad, I'm going to question what our thinking is and why we didn't have any interest at all.

 

paulson 6-4 246. pope 6-8 264. clemons 6-2 210. saunders 6-5 270. miller 6-5 256. will johnson 6-2 238. i'd have to say any of them would be a better option.

 

Meh, I could be talked into a 5th I guess. I really don't like to comment much if I haven't seen tape. I'm not a huge fan of supplemental picks in general, unless I think it's a total steal -- like Janoris Jenkins, if he had entered the supplemental draft. If it's a pick comparable to what he'd be worth a year from now, I'd rather wait and use the pick then on what seems right at the time, if the only advantage is starting his development a year early. I'm no Clemons fan. I think it was a decent pick and he has a decent chance and it sounds like he's doing well so far and impressing people, but I'm not expecting a bunch there either. But if Gordon was on the team right now, I'd probably have about as much hope for him in 2013 as I do for Clemons in 2012.

Mac, as I said above I want to use Saunders and Miller more in the red zone, and also experiment with them at WR down inside the 5. But those other guys may or may not be on the roster, and none of them are WRs, except one guy who is 6'2 and unlikely to be active.

 

I don't think he lasts out of the 3rd round now and I doubt we have a chance at all using our 4th.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...l-prospect-gordon-runs-4-52-forty-at-pro-day/

He did a pro-day at 6031, 224 lbs, ran a 4.52, 36" vert, 10'-1" broad and 13 reps.

21 Teams showed up for his workout, which is many more than expected. I'm telling you HugeSack, he's a much better prospect than you are making him out to be. He would be a STEAL if we drafted someone like him with our 2013 4th round pick. With 4-year rookie deals, there is almost no downside to supplemental selections. It's like buying a sale item with a 1-year 0% credit card.

 

i know and niether is gronkowski that del was talking about. johnson has tape of his ability in the redzone of making catches. so does paulson, and it's been written about clemons ability to fight off defenders with his stregnth to make the tough catches. TE's are very useable in the redzone. it doesn't have to be a WR doing the damage. pope is still a 6-8 target. i just think gorden is more of what we already have here. he's more TE then he is WR. he's one of those tweeners.

 

I would venture most of those so-called "tweeners" on our team run a lot closer to 5.0 than 4.5. If this kid is running 4.52 at 224, he's a wide receiver.

If you really think our stable of TE's (2 of which might not even be on the opening day roster) are red zone threats, then you and I have a much different definition of the term. To you, I would suspect every receiver in the game is a red zone threat then.

 

if they are receivers in the nfl they better be a red zone threat.

 

if they are receivers in the nfl they better be a red zone threat. [/quote:3nozscxs]

I consider a red zone threat someone that has a strength in that area against the norm. So that explains the difference in opinion.

 

pope ran a 4.62 26 reps at 6-8 258lbs.. johnson 6-2 240 4.49 with 30 reps. clemons 4.36 at 6-2+ . i know miller and saunders have the size and stregnth. we are talking red zone the strait line speed is not overly important down there. we have big targets. pope is faster than gronkowski's 4.68 and 3 inches taller. i'm just not sure why you think this kid is so special at 6-3 220 running a 4.52?

 

David Johnson did not run close to a 4.49.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75725&draftyear=2009&genpos=FB

And Pope and Miller are both a step slower than they are when they came out of the draft. Pope doesn't run 4.6 anymore and anyone that watches a few of his games knows that. There's a reason Pope is only making $725,000 this season as a free agent. If he was a legit red zone threat (my definition) he would be more sought after than that.

Clemons is an athlete. No doubt about that. And as I have stated earlier in this thread, I like Clemons and the selection very much. But I am not pinning my hopes on him being a contributor 100% guaranteed either. He was drafted in the 7th round for a reason.

My opinion to use a 4th round bid on Gordon is all based on taking another shot and buying another lottery ticket (on the cheap in my opinion) for that roll on the team. We need a bigger, more physical WIDE RECEIVER. Not a middle-of-the-road tight end (which is all Pope, Saunders, Johnson and Paulson are).

I guess we can agree to disagree, but if you really think that list of characters fits the definition of a red zone threat, than you don't see my point and we are miles away from each other.

Miller is a decent red-zone tight end. He is not elite like some in the league (I would barely put him top-10 of all TE's in that capacity). Both Wallace and Brown are average, at best, in the red zone (I would actually put Brown in the bottom half of the league in that ability). After those starters, we have a mishmash of "maybes" that are all mid-to-late round talents. But those starters are who Ben looks at first and I'm not sure they are a strength (in red zone situations only). I would love to add one guy to the mix that really causes teams to think about defending in that area of the field.

 

that would be will johnson. you are forgetting sanders and cotchery. not to mention rainy is a tough cover. this kid hasen't played in two years either, so i would put a guy like pope, saunders, and any of our receivers miles over this kid.

 

Cleveland used what is likely a very high 2nd round pick on him.

That's way too rich for my blood, but I do think it shows he's a lot more highly rated as a prospect than some around here think. Cleveland wasn't the only team interested. That's for sure.

 

i think i read 13 teams or something like that. the brownies have accumulated alot of extra picks by moving around and wheeling and dealing picks in the first round over the last couple of years. it's not like it's their only high picks like ours would have been.

 

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Rep ... llege.html

another reason why i'd have not given up a draft pick for him. attitude and smarts.

 

heath, pope and saunders i believe will be used properly now as red zone targets. so will our FB. one thing i can't understand is betting on this kid as a redzone target is no different then betting on our own rookies or young players. the reason we don't have a redzone target is because BA made us stink in the redzone. the same reason he is no longer here. clemons is less than an inch shorter than this guy, but this guy is a target and clemons isn't? i just don't see the justification of that statement guys. they are both rookies, but one has played meaningful football in the last two years. one has been getting kicked off teams and failing drug test after test. i'm confused by your logic.

 

Julius Peppers????

 

I'm late, in fact too late for supplemental talk but as far as redzone talk....... HHhmmmm

Ya'll may be right as far as having a single dominate redzone force through the air..... but you all are not thinking right. We ARE returning to ground and pound rushing attack. We're building our OL to dominate in the rush game and hoping some-one named Johnson becomes a force at FB which also adds to the passing game on 3rd downs and redzone area.

As McDaddy pointed out we have a modge podge of redzone receiver talent but once the league figures out we're running down their throat and they focus on that it'll open up the receiver corp even more. Remember Haley has had success at building both air attacks and running attacks at two previous coaching jobs and we're built to do both/either.

Also remember... we have REDZONE Redman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cajun-

 

Yes, if I'm remembering right. He's tall and athletic, so they figured he could catch a fade easily. He kind of struggled if I'm remembering right, because it's not what he does naturally, but he might have caught a couple. In any case, Miller's only an inch or two shorter and is excellent at catching and body positioning. Gotta think he could do as decent a job as any against a CB he has half a foot on.