Do the Steelers have sufficient talent?

Okay, I don't want this to come across as another "bashing Tomlin" post and I'm pretty much finished after this. There are many on this board who want to blame the Steelers' mediocrity the last few seasons on everything but the head coach. A recurring scapegoat for Tomlin, according to the diehard Tomlin apologists, is that the Steelers don't have sufficient talent to be anything more than average to below average. I call bullcrap on that and thought it may be interesting to have some meaningful discussion on the topic. So here we go.

Where are they lacking in talent? They've got a franchise quarterback in Ben. They've got a legitimate number one WR in AB and Wheaton is coming along as a legit number two. Heath is still one of the better TEs in the league and Spaeth us a heckuva blocker and decent backup. The OL has two former number ones in Pouncey and DeCastro who many around the league would consider elite or on the verge. They have Gilbert, a number two who they are obviously high on and has shown flashes, and a couple of over-performers in Beachum and Foster. We have a heckuva starting RB in LeVeon Bell and a starter caliber backup in Blount.

On defense, let's start with the linebackers. Lawrence Timmons, former number one draft pick who has TALENT! Jason Worilds, number two draft pick who has TALENT! Jarvis Jones, number one draft pick who has TALENT and who at one time was being touted as a possible number one overall draft pick! And Ryan Shazier is a number one draft pick with, you guessed it, TALENT!!! I'll admit that our defensive backs may be a weak link but I don't think they are the worst in the league by any stretch. We have Troy in the defensive backfield and Mike Mitchell, who showed last year in Carolina that he has, everybody now, TALENT!!! Ike's play has declined and Cortez Allen has regressed, but the Steelers apparently believe that he has TALENT or they would not have signed him to a significant contract extension. The DL is also an enigmatic group. Both Cam Heyward and Steve McClendon seemed to be on the verge of stardom but both have regressed this season. I personally believe that regression and lack of development is symptomatic of poor coaching and we've seen too much of that of late.

My point is that the Steelers have MORE THAN ENOUGH talent to win consistently, but they far too often get out-maneuvered when it comes to preparation, game planning, in-game adjustments....COACHING. But I'm not sure many of you will even consider that possibility since it couldn't possibly be Mike Tomlin's responsibility.

Thoughts? (And please don't hijack the thread by making snide remarks about how those of us who have concerns about Tomlin's coaching abilities are nothing more than haters and bashers. I am neither and would like to hear from those who have sincerely held beliefs about the subject different from my own. Let's engage on this topic and not insult each other because we may not agree, capeesh?)

 

3 pro bowl level player : ben bell brown
7 very good players : decastro pouncey heath timmons(when in shape) weathon worilds heiward
2 old but possible still great (??) troy kiesel
all the others are unproven young with talent to develope still underperfoming ,or bust or dead

the question his are they able to judge the talents ?

iask because when i saw the gilbert signing i started to be worried

 

I don't know if anybody is saying that Tomlin can do no wrong or that he's not responsible in someway for our performance the last couple seasons. I just think what a lot of people are saying is that Tomlin while not perfect is not a terrible coach.
We definitely have some talent on this team. I think one of the problems is that it's all young talent. It's one thing to plug in a guy or two into an established group of veterans. We've had a lot of turnover the last couple seasons after keeping a core group of guys together for quite some time.
They're going to need some time to gel together. I believe will get there. I believe it'll start showing up by the halfway point of the season and I believe will make a push to make the playoffs. We may not go deep into the playoffs but make the playoffs nonetheless.
Look at it this way Tomlin probably has two more seasons to get this thing turned around or he'll be fired and you'll get your wish anyway ,either way you win Jack!

 

I don't get the whole "diehard Tomlin apologist" bit, Jack. I see people posting here about how Tomlin gets a free pass all the time. But from who? I see people here making points that maybe - just maybe - the problems the team has are more complex and nuanced than pointing the finger at one guy. That doesn't exclude Tomlin from blame, though. I've not seen any poster here - not even BF - put Tomlin on a pedestal and say "nobody touch that".

Ahem. Now that's out of my system... I think this is a really interesting topic question.

I tend to think we have a lot of potential here. We are in transition, and there are a lot players I think could be great. I don't think we've seen in the past twenty years or so this amount of transition in one team. The o-line is young. The LB corps are young. The DBs... well, they don't really count, as there isn't the talent there that we need. That brings its own problems with assessing the actual talent on the team. Add one new player into a team of winning vets, and you'll likely see the best of them. Add several new pieces without the experience of winning around them... different story. They have to make their own identity.

 

Okay, no more name calling. (at least for a while)


That's the problem, Blast, he does seem to be putting his "stamp" on the team. And to me it looks like lethargy, a lack of passion, unpreparedness, old and tired schemes that don't fool anybody anymore, regression and lack of development in player personnel and unintelligent football. It also looks like allowing big play after big play while not getting any pressure on the QB and not producing turnovers on defense, you know, those "splash plays, Tomlin likes to talk about. Sorry, but that's what I see right now and it's lead to two straight mediocre seasons defined by .500 records and so far this season being outscored 50-9 after the first half of the first game.

 

We do have talent for sure. Is it being applied correctly is the question I have.

 

last Thursday night was an indication of something missing..whether it's talent or the 5hr energy I can't put my finger on it. losing to our rival by 26pts. was a kick in the nuttz.

 

Yes it was, both sides can boast of the ass whoopings though. It's either a nail biter or a beat down between them 2.

i really think Ben got jarred on that hit, took him out of the game. The D never showed up, but that's not surprising and I can't believe a Steeler D getting manhandled season after season is becoming old hat, but it is! Sad.

 

it's all good when the vets are playing well and leading the way with sacks,turnovers,splash plays as we expect from them. then usually some young players really show their stuff as long as we have steady play from the regulars. this is when these young guys can showcase their talent, because the vets used to have it covered for the most part. the young guys were add ons so to speak.

our vets have been hung onto past the time they can still play like the muscle of the team. now the young guys are thrown into not only new guy role but having to play as our vets should be to have it covered. that is way to high of a task at this stage of their careers. we didn't get that mix of youth with vets in here and playing in time.

the wrong guys getting new contracts. bringing in low level FA's and expecting old steeler vet type play from them. whiffing on draft picks. holding onto subpar draft picks. guys not getting 2nd and 3rd contracts, because they wern't that good to start with. once the ball starts rolling it's hard to stop. KC has to start to do a way better job.

we have some talent, but it's not ready yet and the vets we have left are not enough to carry the load. the new free agents are just backups most places. right now we are a team made up of band-aid's.

personally i'd like to see a qb drafted soon. one able to take over at some point, because by the time we get this rebuild up to the level we need it, it may be past bens time as a player. he'll be 40 and crippled.

 

Good Post!

 

Hell no they don't have enough talent, if they did they wouldn't be re-signing a 36 year old Kiesel or have Ike as a starter at CB. If you think this team has enough talent name me one great player on defense, Polamalu is past his prime so leave him out of it. The talent needs to be proven to, guys like Shazier and Shamarko and even Jarvis haven't played enough football yet. Their 4 starters at the LB only one has played a full season as a starter Timmons.

 

You asking for a list of great players or a list of talent ? Two different lists!

 

Not enough talent, but they do have it.

 

My point whatever talent they have a lot of it is young, some take longer to develop.

 

There is talent but it is young. It takes time to develop. Not everyone can jump right into the NFL and be the player they were in college. The key is where is this team four or five weeks from now? My guess is they will be better. This team will go as far as the young guys take them. Hopefully that is the playoffs.

 

GREAT POST and I hope at the end of the season
the Rooney's will look at their team and themselves and ask are we getting it done? Are we able to compete at a high level with who we have in place? I myself am tired of watching
poor preperation,regression of talent, not able
to develop players, time mgmt, discipline and fundamentally sound football. All this with a franchise QB? If this team doesn't go 10-6 with this schedule
I would hope the Rooney's do something.

 

The Steelers do have some special players. The talent level is lacking on the O line and D line.

 

I think they have the talent to go 10-6 and make the playoffs, but not good enough to win a Super Bowl. JackAttack you're wrong if you blame Heyward and Cortez regression on the coaches, DL coach John Mitchell has been here a long time and coached some good players he didn't forget how to coach. These players are paid to go out and perform I place their bad play on them. Are you going to blame Munchak for Gilbert giving up 4 sacks this season?

 

Lets just say we are really really slow in developing young talent, maybe we dont know how to do it, or we are terrible at evaluating talent on draft day, seems like a combination of both....

 

x2 ... they do seem to a better job on offense vs defense


scruffy

 

I dont see how anyone could proclaim we are terrible at evaluating draft day talent. Hmm.. Bell and Shazier look pretty good to me.. Of course there is more evaluation to be done but I like what I am seeing thus far in the way of talent. It's going to take some time to see these players develop

 

I agreed with the "slow developing" from Diamond's post and went on to say they were better with offense talent than defensive talent. Now where in the sam hell exactly did I say they were "terrible at evaluating draft day talent" ???

Meybe you should quote you own posts for a while, till you learn what in the hell your doing.


scruffy