Cover 2 ?

Coach T finally instructing guys in the concepts of Cover 2 . I have been on board with a 4 man rush for years and it finally seems we may do more of that .Here is a quote i read."You didn't pay Cam that money to be a two-gapper. He's a penetrator. That's what he does. That's what he's good at," Clark said. "You have to get pressure if you're going to play Cover-2. You drafted Bud (Dupree). You have Jarvis (Jones). You have those guys. Those guys have to be able to rush the passer, and I think what's going to make this team still good is if they can perfect Cover-2 to a point to where it's something they can play throughout the game."

Early in camp I know , but Butler has been talking 1 gap stuff as well, we also drafted a lot of ball hawks to go with the 1 gap guys up front .

The main reason I like it better than a 3-4 is less thinking and less blitzing and it turns the front guys loose to penetrate . I just hope we can run it well and we stick with it if yielding good results....

 

I think we are going to still be a 3-4 but run more cover 2 out of it like I believe the Jets and Ravens do.

 

I think Dupree will eventually be the key to the hybrid as he has the athleticism to be in the 2 point stance but also the size to put his hand in the dirt when called upon.

 

Experienced QBs like Ben, Brady, Rivers, Mannings and others easily gash cover 2s all the time because:

There are a few weaknesses to the Cover 2. All zone coverage has holes in it, and teams that run the Cover 2 are heavily exposed to deep post patterns, seam routes, medium range hooks, flooding the zone. Because of how much ground the safety has to cover, deep passes can easily overload his zone. A common play that teams run to stop it is a quick fly or out to the far sides. Once the receiver breaks the zone where the corner plays, he'll be in a soft zone. Realistically, it's about 8 yards for him to run, while the safety might have to cover 20 yards to run over there and provide help over the top. Its also a mismatch as most safeties in the NFL can not cover a receiver effectively.

 

It really just depends on where they have the mlb sitting and my guess would be Shazier sitting in the intermediate area where if it is a deep seam he can get back to cover the middle or come up and punish anything underneath. I'm just looking at Tomlin coming from the Tampa 2 and how the MLB is used in that.

 

And thus, Cam will still be on the roster, and some heads will explode.

 

Absolutely correct. I read it too fast, plus I'm on vacation (read into that as you will).

 

You make some solid points and I agree a straight Cover 2 Zone is bad against great QB'S . The kicker is against a lot of sets the cover 2 actually becomes a man/zone with man under neath and zone on top .

 

Every defense scheme....EVERY defensive scheme.....has weaknesses. The issue is mostly about limited how those weaknesses are exposed.

 

Cover 2 also. The range VP I shoot at is also a big Steeler fan and Knows Todd Haley is my cuz, (Who I still never met) I shot today and talking to him before I did, he showed me this target that looked like TH. I tried NOT to shoot him in the head so you could see. The black face is with a Bersa .380. The orange face is a Bersa BP9CC. Not a spitting image bt enough to be funny. Targets are for training only I would not shoot my cuz

 

Have we not worked in some Cover 2 for years under Lebeau? Not every down but we have employed some from time to time. Maybe the newer guys need to be schooled in it I suppose but I'm quite sure I've seen it under Lebeau in years past.

 

I thought so.

 

Of course we have seen it. The point is how much have we seen it with 4 DL ? How much have we seen it with a 1 Gap responsibility ? How many times have we heard about Coach T actually teaching the Cover 2 ?

Sort of like music is music and we have all heard music before , but James Brown brought a new funk to it . I hope this is the Steelers version of that Funk.

 

Agree!!!! Even when great defenses get stale teams key on them and defeat them. The zone blitz had really bad open weaknesses that were disguised, shifting those disguises were key. Changing our scheme is very important because there's SO much film on what we used to do. How much we change and the disguises are going to be fun to watch and decipher.

Cajun-

 

Well heres how it's been exposed, mostly from the rule book:

ESPN

only two teams -- the Bears and Vikings -- consider the cover 2 to be their base defense. Most teams are switching to more combination man coverages, in part to combat the two-tight-end sets growing in popularity (see sidebar). But an even bigger reason for the demise of the cover 2 is the rapid rise of defensive penalties called for big hits. The scheme relies heavily on having two hard-hitting safeties down the middle, each patrolling half of the field. Prototypical decleaters like John Lynch of the Bucs and Bob Sanders of the Colts were trained to run right through receivers at the point of the catch and separate ball from man.

According to Stats Inc., however, the number of defensive personal foul calls in the NFL jumped from 250 in 2008 to 388 in 2011, a 55.2 percent spike. The uptick can be attributed to the introduction of launching and defenseless-player penalties, plus increased enforcement of helmet-to-helmet and unnecessary roughness calls. "You just can't afford to build your defense around guys who are going to always be getting 15-yard penalties, fined and suspended," an NFL scout says. "Those kinds of intimidating defensive players almost aren't worth the trouble now."

 

Very good point about only 2 Teams using a old school cover 2 . I don't want us running that either . Also a very good point about being to physical . The cover 2 is designed more to ball hawk that it is to make big hits .Here is a nice piece on the 1 Gap system.http://grantland.com/features/whos-laughing-now/

Cover 2 is just a good base pass D to start creating a solid 1 gap system. You can easily rotate into a Cover 3 or Cover 4 depending on the set. From there you can go zone you can go man or you can go man/zone . As it states in the article and as Clark stated the main thing is it allows the DL to be aggressive and cover 2 is just a good base to start from .

Here is another good article on 4 man fronts the part I think you will find most interesting is the type of guys required to play the front 4. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1999358-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-4-3-defensive-front

Clark all but said it. Cam a 1 gap guy, JJ more of an Athlete the open DE. Shazier fast clean up LB who should be able to cover. Timmons middle down hill thumper. Our guys fit the scheme .Again the better we can run the Cover 2 the more these guys get to play the way they are built to play.

 

Here's the deal. ALL successful and/or dominate defenses perfectly match player talent with scheme. That isn't an easy thing to do.

We had a dominate 3-4 defense and because we had a safety who was supersmart/instinctual it perfectly fit a zone/blitz with a freelance SS. Key was a NT who couldn't be moved. We no longer have those keys!!!

What we have now are 3-4 DL who aren't 2-gap stout as much as desired but are more athletic, making them more 1-gap guys. If you're going to turn loose the DL to penetrate and attack the QB it will hurt the run defense responsibilities of the DL putting more responsibilities of run defense on the LB. That's fine, its only a small shift schematically overall but rushing DL take more time to get there than blitzing LBers so you MUST take away the QB quick targets. To do this you move up your CBs to bump and run style which is totally different technique wise. Tomlin must change what they use to do, teach this technique to give the DL time to get there. We don't have shut down corners so cover two is needed.

The corners come up to the line, contest free releases then pass WR off to the safeties. Then the CB protect underneath passes and breakaway RB & TE from making big gains. This is fitting scheme to players because this is kind of DL,CB, & Safeties we have.

LBers!!! Our LB are so diverse schematically they can play our old style and new style. We'll keep 10 LB this year.

Go Steelers!!!!

Cajun-

 

Spot on post . Another reason we need to change is Teams are stopping are bread and butter blitz cold . The fire x used to destroy the opponent now it's like giving them a First down or more. I hope our new bread and butter becomes Double A gap blitz from a 4-3 under . 2 main reasons I like is if an opponent wants to go multiple wide they will not have enough help and if they do it will be a RB on a LB almost every time. We practice the heck out of that drill why not run a blitz that gets you in that situation.

The Second reason is no wasted time . LB'S just hit the gap straight at the QB this helps the CB'S play tighter and close off those quick throws. QB'S can't stand pressure in there face and the bottom line is you can get it there quicker with a 1 gap scheme than you can with a 2 .

 

I totally agree about Casey Hampton and big nose tackles in general. We didn't realize how truly valuable he was until he was gone. Remember that crazy stat we had where we hadn't given up 100yds on the ground in a ton of games but now it seems routine that we do that. Did you see Agree to Disagree the other day where they were debating whether this Cover 2 meant the 4-3 was inevitable here soon? Labriola said he thought it was inevitable. I disagree that we are gonna convert to it because Butler is a 3-4 guy and I just don't think we're gonna do it. Has Butler ever ran a 4-3 at any point in his career? Even when he was a college coach he was a 3-4 guy.

 

I don't think Butler will ever say we have or are switching to a 4-3 . The new cool way is hybrid ,multiple fronts , that type of stuff . The fronts used to be clearly defined amount of guys with hand in the dirt, not so much now days. I count it as guys on the LOS , is why I say we run a bunch of 4 and 5 man fronts already mostly nascar package type stuff and mostly in zone blitz that Teams are eating up with the running and the passing game .

Call it what they will but the change is coming and it is a must .

 

I did not see it but will try to catch up on things like that now that I'm on vacation. Gotta get settled in first. I don't know Butler's entire story....shame on Me.

I actually have been thinking this, but preseason should give us some tells, that we will no longer be a 3-4, or should I say a "defined" defense. Example: We have 3-4 personnel in, but after presnap QB reads Dupree drops his hands and lines up as LDE, LBer shifts to classic 4-3 assignments. Timmons Mike in classic cover2 or move Shazier to "Mike" in the classic Tampa-2 set. Endless possibilities utilizing all or LBERs ,they stay fresh, opponents stay confused.

I need to see some football...... my mind is going crazy.

Cajun