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State of The Team............ RB's

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by blackandgoldpatrol, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    On to the runners... This is one of the few units on the team where there is no question about the pecking order... I do expect one of the rookies to show up and become a fan favorite, but that's for later.

    Overview:
    The rb position has become a position of strength for us once again (actually, so has every other position on the offense, but I digress)... As stated earlier, there is absolutely no drama regarding competition here. We all know where the rb's here stand, and so do the players. This is a position that should be in good shape for the future..

    Leveon Bell --- Emerged as one of the elite backs in the league.. great patience and vision.. Turned himself into a breakaway threat, and can't be ignored in the passing game... Bell was the spark plug that made the offensive engine run smoothly.. Currently will be serving his 3 game suspension barring appeal decision. While that may worry some, I do believe that the addition of the next person on this list will ease some of the heartache... When he does return, defenses beware.

    Deangelo Williams --- Strong runner, who still has what it takes.. Can carry the load while Bell is out, and is no slouch in the passing game either. Team player that will do whatever it takes to help the team (unlike the last #2 here).. I look forward to seeing what he can do in our offense.

    Dri Archer --- The little guy with track star speed... Now that he is a yr. older and wiser, I look for him to be a bigger part of the offense.. Even with his speed Archer admittedly was not ready for the speed of the game... I believe he will get roughly 10-15 snaps per game, and that he will be used in space more.. With all the weapons spreading a defense out, Archer should find plenty of room to roam in the middle.. Look for him also to get another shot at the return teams..

    Josh Harris --- Certainly looks the part. Harris appears to have been chiseled from stone. Harris has good vision and is a breakaway threat, along with being able to catch the occasional pass. Like Archer, he had to get used to the speed of the game, and should get a few touches this season in the rotation... expect to see decent production from him.

    Cameron Stingily --- Big, punishing back, with good vision and feet.. Style is very reminiscent of Blount's... Will make a lot of noise in pre-season and will have more than a few fans talking about him. For the time being, I think he is destined for the PS until Williams contract runs out.

    Ross Scheuerman --- Good vision, but takes to long to get to the hole and accelerate to top speed.. Dominated small school competition, but not ready for the big time.


    Next up: LBers
     
  2. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    I'm not seeing that many touches for Dri Archer. Nor can I say, from what I've seen so far, that I would want to see that many touches. Certainly, while Bell is out, he will see more action. But that action will be a change of pace from DW or perhaps a series or two to give him a breather. Frankly, by the way he was used in the playoff game, I see him getting more passes in his direction than handoffs.

    On a second look, I read that wrong. You said, snaps. Ehh, maybe. But, I doubt it. 10 seems a little high.
     
  3. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    I think archer gets about 3-5 touches a game and josh will be the breather guy. Goes in when the starter needs a breath lol. Bell and Williams will be a scary 1-2 punch barring injuries.
     
  4. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    It's been said many times before, but Archer has to be on the field more in order to be effective. Otherwise it's obvious he's the target. So 10-15 snaps isn't out of the question. More so with the Bell suspension, obvs.

    That will be more feasibly if his blocking improves, but also if they exploit him in motion more - line him up all over the place, call his route from the line, anything to get him some space.

    He only needs a yard or two more space from last season (his work on timing will help that, a la Bell in his 2nd year), and one or two huge plays to start drawing tighter coverage, which then frees up the receivers some more.

    If we're just plugging him in for Bell or Williams, then he'll be gone by next year.
     
  5. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I think he needs to cut his teeth on special teams, not sure he will ever be a big enough part of the offense to stick around on those merits alone.
     
  6. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    I didn't like the pick when he was drafted. I think my fears are being justified. He has elite speed and in college he was great.... but in the NFL everyone is fast and he hasn't been able to flash his supposed breakaway skills. ST is where he'll need to prove he can play with the big boys or he'll be out of the league in two years.

    Cajun
     
  7. Bleedsteel

    Bleedsteel

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    Everyone has their opinion of DRI, and that`s fine...

    Mine is, give him a chance to work his way onto the team, thru kickoffs/punt returns...

    If he gets hurt, so what? Better than hurtin Brown/Wheaton, etc...

    Once he gets better, at blocking(and that MIGHT be this year)...

    Give him more chances outta the backfield, but don`t telegraph it, by giving him the ball every time he is on the field...
    I truly believe he can be a major weapon on our offense, but, NOT when the D knoews he is getting the ball every time he is on the field..

    I think a lot of that has to do with him no being strong enuff to block a blitzing LB/TE...

    When he get coached up enuff to take out their knees, we have a homerun threat on the field, whenever he is out there...

    `Till then, let him handle kickoffs/punts, and see if he is willing to get up to speed, and block a gunner....

    Special Teams, is where he needs to earn his time, and I bet he will, if given the chance...

    GO STEELERS!
     
  8. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    i think year two for dri on offense will help this team. especially with bell out. if we can get him a couple of good runs, that will always be on the defenses minds. this kid doesn't hit the hole hard but he hits it so fast and that is good for our linemen. it keeps those defenses up and then we can use play action that much more effectively with him in the game. it helps him have to rely less on being a good blocker in a sense but as a decoy then creating the same results by freezing the defenders from pinning their ears back and blitzing ben. as i said he needs a couple of good runs early in the season for this to be effective for us.

    also the better the line gets at zone blocking and the rb's in sync with them, the better we will run it. bell being out sucks but it gives us time for these other backs to work with the o-line. it can only make this o better when these guys are in the game after bell comes back. remember they will have 8 games counting preseason of work. :cool:
     
  9. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    A well placed middle screen or 2 should give an overaggressive defense something to think about as well when dri is in there
     
  10. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    yea, I believe that will be a bigger part of his game but to establish himself as a run threat will prove invaluable.:cool:
     
  11. Bleedsteel

    Bleedsteel

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    Mac, Good point about the "decoy"...

    When defenses see him on the field, and he DOESN`T get the ball, but goes out on a route, it WILL slow them down a bit...or at least make one or two of them head in his direction...

    Probably more effective than he could be, by actually blocking them, lol...

    I have high hopes for the kid, I`ve seen what he could do at Kent State, and ya just can`t coach speed...

    It`s all a matter of utilizing him properly...And you are right, It`s also a matter of him breaking a couple big ones, on draws, or sweeps, as well...

    To give the D something to worry about... He showed flashes of it in preseason, last year, and it would serve us all well, if he does more this year... Give `em somethin to think about.

    I have no doubt that he has the work ethic, and study habits to get better as he gets more experience!

    GO STEELERS!!!
     
  12. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    I hope I'm wrong, but I have serious doubts you can teach a guy who is 5-8 173 to block an NFL linebacker or lineman. And if he can't block, his use goes way down. That was very clear in the Baltimore loss.
     
  13. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    that's why you don't use him in that capacity. there are other ways around him having to straight up be the extra blocker and freeze a LB or two. :cool:
     
  14. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    I'm sort of missing as to how. If he can't be used to block then he's basically a small fast receiver. If he is going in, what receiver are you taking out. If you don't take a receiver out you are coming up short on blocking. And Baltimore really took advantage of this.
     
  15. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    There are more options than blocking RB and non-blocking WR, no?

    I was actually surprised by how little he was used against Baltimore. My sense was they tried to simply plug in the gap that Bell left, rather than fully redesign the gameplan around what they had.

    That said - and this is a slightly different point - while Archer will never do well between the tackles, there was that off-tackle run which we destroyed the Bengals with when we played with Bell - I think every time it was called it resulted in huge gains. There's no reason why that wouldn't work with Archer, but there's more than a little 'youthful enthusiasm' in his play which means he's not synced up with his blockers. I think Archer still tries to make plays on his own (in ST and from the backfield), with less awareness of his surroundings. You would expect this to improve after a year, if he's worth a 3rd rounder.
     
  16. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    i explained that a few quotes up the page. i also disagree about him not being able to run between the tackles. i think he must run between the tackles to be effective, just not in the sense of a normal rb like bell or wiliams would. he's a guy you have to run quick hitters with. this doesn't give the lb'ers a chance to react with his speed. the trouble in the baltimore game is we abandoned the run way too early.:cool:
     
  17. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    You take out the TE'S and spread the field wide. Go to a 4 WR set. This gives you the draw game and middle screen and circle route as well as the seam route to attack the middle of the field.

    This gives you the quick pitch game to attack the edge is why I like the big WR'S blocking basically a power sweep.Also you have the swing pass and outside screen game .Along with the wheel route which he has been open on and Ben missed him.

    Use his speed have him going somewhere and force the D to determine where that's how you use speed from that position.
     
  18. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    This formation is where Ben typically gets blitzed, sacked and looses 7 yards.
     
  19. defva

    defva Well-Known Member

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    Archer has to be in motion before the snap of the ball to create mismatches on the field.Then will his effectiveness show.I believe harris and stingily will make some noise in preseason
     
  20. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    That's mostly on Ben. He is getting better at getting the ball out and the better he gets the better those sets will run. As stated Ben didn't look at the wide open Archer at least 3 times this past season. No offense he probably missed each WR at least 5 times,again not a knock just a big part of his game as he gets better those sacks will disappear.
     
  21. Bleedsteel

    Bleedsteel

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    I respectfully disagree, Mac..

    Sending Dri, up the middle, especially, immediately, like on a halfback- dive, or whatever, is the equivilant of Cleveland sending "Metcalf up the middle"...


    It just won`t work.. , IMHO...

    No matter how good his blockers are...

    Personally, I absoluteley HATE "delayed draw", type plays, but...

    IF you are gonna send Dri, up the middle of the field, I think that is the only way it would work...

    You would have to set up the defense first, by, NOT using him, and then, get "cute", by running a play, where evryone is set out wide, and he is kept in as a "blocker", that gets the ball, and runs, after the defense follows the "deep threats"...

    It wud depend on him showing he can stay in and block effectiveley, earlier.

    I just don`t think he can ever do that...

    His only hope is to cut the knees out from under the bigger guys, and I`ve never seen him do that...

    IF, IF, IF, he can prove on tape that he can do that, then, maybe...


    For the time being, he is better suited to traps, or draws, if you INSIST on running him up the middle.. He`s gonna need help from his line...And the patience to wait for the play to develop..

    Right now, I think space, is his best weapon.

    Get him the ball quickly, with blockers in front of him, or not, on screens/sweeps, or quick passes out of the backfield...

    He`s NEVER gonna run anyone over...

    But he CAN make them miss, if he can get the ball in his hands 2 yards in front of one LB/DE/Corner/Safety...

    Then he should be good for 30/40yards, or a TD!!!

    GO STEELERS!!
     
  22. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

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    I respectfully disagree. Ross vs. Cameron...

    Ross is 6'0" @ 204 runs a 4.62 40... he was the combines top performer in the 20yds shuttle @ 4.11 AND the 60yds shuttle @ 11.40. That is quickness and some speed And his tape shows he has good stop start cut moves. He bounces it outside too often probably due to poor OL. He has great hands which fits our offense but he is a bit indecisive once he makes the catch. Coaching will fix his issues and he'll be our next UDFA star.

    Cameron is 6'1" 240 and runs a 4.95 40. He is slow but strong. His tape shows he is a down hill runner straight up the middle, runs too tall and will get caught quickly. He likes contact, was a LB, and only has 9 career catches. He's a real solid blocker and his best fit in the NFL May be @ FB but we have Johnson.

    I can see Ross making the team until Bell's suspension then who knows.

    Cajun
     
  23. Hi5Steeler

    Hi5Steeler Well-Known Member

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    This is the opposite of running philosophy. Most fast RBs come out running to fast too quick and blow themselves up at the line. You need patience to make a run. And vision helps, but hitting the hole fast doesnt allow blockers to set up their blocks. Dri would get killed, pancaked, or worse.

    Dri is very short and very slight. Hard to see. He can get lost in the shuffle. If he waits patiently for a play to set up he can completely disappear then reappear. Hitting the hold hard and fast doesnt allow that to happen.
     
  24. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    You make very good points. And it all depends on the blocking scheme. I like to power block for big RB'S and Fast RB'S . Zone blocking is for patient runners , just like you said . With the style of Archer the 4 WR set is best less bodies , pick a good 2 on 1 and blast him right at the D . Or pull playside behind the WR'S and quick pitch , in that style you figure no DL or LB will out run him to the corner anyway.


    The key to those is keep blasting the 3 and 4 holes until the DL starts slanting in then the outside is there for the killing.
     
  25. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    with dri, I don't see a running philosophy anyway. he's just not the type you build a run game around. he is speed through the line at the 4-6 and 3-5 hole. he's not a cutback type runner. he's a one cut and gone guy if you watch his college successes. speed to get by the line and lb'ers before they react. you have to handle him differently than other RB's. his ability to burn the defense just once or twice freezes the blitzers with play action giving ben that extra second or two in the pocket and doesn't clutter the pocket with a RB that can't stop a blitzer by blocking.

    they essentially use him as another defender if we keep him in the pocket. a LB will throw him into ben. freezing the defense, that's the philosophy I see him being used like in the run and pass game. even if he doesn't get the carry on play action, it still matches him up on a defender that can't cover him. most likely a safety coming up to stop the run first and out of position for covering him as he comes through the line.

    his run style is about catching them flat footed. that's where his style excels. it doesn't require our O-linemen to have to sustain blocks for a long period of time and any crease puts him into the secondary quickly. that takes 6-7 defenders out of the play right away. that's my thoughts on using him. that was a lot of his success in college in the run game. do this against tired defenses later in the halves and watch DC's pulling their hair out.:cool:
     

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