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Our D and Message Board Comments - A Few Thoughts

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Steel Blitz, May 27, 2015.

  1. Steel Blitz

    Steel Blitz Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I just got done reading some threads and enjoying the usual banter from many posters I respect on this board... but I feel inclined to make a few comments considering the opinions of our defense at this point.

    I'm no stranger to the "Star Wars"-like good vs. evil (optimist vs. pessimist) ebb and flow that goes on here, but I think our D is more poised for improvement and success than many of you are stating here... it's almost bordering on insanity (in my feeble mind), lol.

    Let's take this by position group:

    D-Line: Certainly nothing is in stone, and we are one or two injuries away from serious concern, but at the moment, the idea of Tuitt, McLendon and Heyward anchoring the majority of snaps is pretty darn comforting. This is the one position group we seem to be more optimistic on as a message board, so I'll leave it that until we see how things play out in camp and preseason.

    Linebackers: No one is too concerned about our ILB talent or prognosis for continued success, and I think we all agree that we're likely positioned well in this area.... even if/when we do suffer an injury or two during the season. That leaves OLB, which is where I have serious disagreement with many of you. Maybe I'm just having an overly optimistic moment, but I look at the potential starters, JJ and Moats, and I'm certainly not cringing. Whatever criticism you have of JJ, I would challenge you to go back a few years... at one time, Harrison was a multiple cut and traded player, following up after Porter (who wasn't exactly the hulk regarding his body type). Both turned out to be more than capable at the position. I personally think having James there for situational time requiring power and containment, and JJ for the majority of snaps as a quick and elusive (vs. bullish) type of attacking linebacker is a great combination. If Dupree ends up being able to contribute more as the season goes on, then Moats will have a great 1-2 punch for situational football at the LOLB position. Not to mention, a few of the unproven and less-drafted guys will be providing strong competition during camp. We've drafted OLB's high in almost every draft in the last few years, and it seems like you all expect to have probowl LB's at both positions all the time. Every team would love that... it's just not reality, but we've certainly been stacking the deck. I'm excited as hell to see what Butler puts together this year, and don't be surprised to see a bunch more inside blitzes pushing QB's out of the pocket and into waiting OLB's/DE's. We might have the potential for the best balanced attack we've had in years regarding the front 7.

    Defensive Backs: To be honest, I'm not really that concerned about the safety positions, even if Holliman ends up riding the pine or on the PS. I think Mitchell and Thomas will learn to play together, and Allen is a seasoned veteran who can help fill in gaps if there's and injury or need. We need to realize the days of Clark and Troy dominating the box are gone... and I think their departures are just what these guys need to inspire them to play well together and create their own legacy.

    That being said, if there's one position or group I'm pessimistic about, it's our CB's, so I certainly won't challenge anyone for being overly concerned, negative or pessimistic about our prognosis this year. It's warranted. Unfortunately, it's kind of like rolling the dice in Vegas... sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I think we'll see a lot of that reflected in our CB play this year, and I am concerned about better QB's exploiting that. On the other hand, it's not like we've got a bunch of "has-been's" at the position. We've got a bunch of "green" guys mixed in with mediocre veteran talent. Time will tell....

    Sorry for the long post, but I guess I'm just feeling a bit more optimistic regarding our D's chances of improving and being truly productive this year than much of what I've been reading on this site. Then again, this is what message boards are for, so everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it will be up to our next-gen D to prove us right or wrong.

    -Blitz
     
  2. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm a little more concerned about safety and a little more reassured that our CB's can improve from last year.
     
  3. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    i agree with this statement. i'm not as concerned about starters getting used to each other, but if we have to rely on will allen starting at some point, i am very worried. he may be OK as a spot starter but we will have trouble if it has to be more than that. mitchell has to show alot more too. golden doesn't exactly enstill confidence either. i'd like nothing more than darby,lewis or some other guy step up in camp that we just can't be without.:cool:
     
  4. Bleedsteel

    Bleedsteel

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    I`m always optimistic....
    Or at least I try to be...
    And you didn`t even mention Shazier, Timmons, or Spence, when talking about our LB`s..


    The line, with Cameron Heyward, possibly Stephon Tuitt, definitely, Steve McClendon, maybe rotating in Dan McCullers, and whatever coach Butler schemes the whole defense up to do, gives me, optimism!!!

    We also have Shamarko Thomas, and Jarvis Jones, who HOPEFULLY, will both progress this year, give me reason to believe, we will improve, rather than regress, on D...

    Good Post, Blitz!!!!:thumbs_up:

    GO STEELERS!!!!


    eDIT.... And oh yeah, we drafted a guy named Doran Grant, from THE Ohio State university, who should immediiatley upgrade our cornerback position, and, William Gay is under-rated, IMHO...
     
  5. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    As good as our Dline is and will be (I'm excited for the future with Tuitt and Heyward), the defense is all about the linebackers. Our pass rush is just a huge question mark right now. It could be outstanding next year or it could be down right awful, I don't think anyone can say for certain?

    I'm concerned about safety as well. If Shamarko doesn't pan out or is always hurt it will be an issue all season since we have no real back up at that spot (I don't see Mitchell as a SS).

    I think we are good enough at corner, I have full confidence Cortez will rebound, and I have a good feeling about Senquez.
     
  6. Bleedsteel

    Bleedsteel

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    No one here knows how much our scheme will change, either...

    Keith Butler has said not to expect "radical" changes...

    But, I suspect, even a couple "minor" changes , could make a big differernce...


    For instance, jamming recievers at the line, instead of playing off them, attacking the qb, and using the downlinemen, to get into the backfield, on every play, instead of asking thm to "eat blockers", coul change a lot...

    We will see if those changes happen, and whatever other changes happen, this season.


    GO STEELERS!!!
     
  7. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    i'm concerned about safety as well i don't see shamarko starting .. i see allen and mithchell or holliman if surprise .
     
  8. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    Overall, I'm excited to see what the defense can do and I really believe that Butler's goal will be to simplify the playbook a little and get the young playmakers doing what they do best, making plays. Honestly, I appreciate all that DL did for our defense but I think over the last few years it had gotten to be more about "the great Dick LeBeau" and his algorithmic schemes and less about getting these young athletes on the field and taking advantage of their athletic ability. They were so afraid of making mistakes that it inhibited their intuitive playmaking ability. I'm optimistic that Butler will devise effective schemes that will allow these guys to play football and will get the younger guys contributing much sooner.

    As as for the players, I'm excited with every group on defense. We've got a couple of veterans on the DL in Heyward and McClendon and I look forward to seeing what McCullers and Tuitt are going to do year two. I think the LB corps has a ton of potential and the time is NOW to start getting something out of that potential. As I've stated previously, this season is make or break for JJ and we also need to see more out of Shazier this season although not with the same kind of urgency that will define JJ's season. I hope Dupree can contribute right away. Like it or not, these three first rounders and the tremendous investment they represent will determine the Steelers' success on defense for the next decade and we'd better hope these guys step up to the plate this season! The secondary is a major question mark. We'll see if Mitchell was truly injured which impacted performance or if he just sucks. Can Shamarko get on the field and stay or is he just going to be one of "those guys" whose career can't get on track because he can't stay healthy. I don't know what the heck is going on with Cortez but I think his issues may be more psychological than anything else at this point. Like JJ, this is make or break for him as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Golson and Holliman can do. It will be refreshing to see a defensive back that actually understands the concept that when the ball is in the air he has as much right to it as the receiver!

    Im looking forward to seeing our new defensive identity form under Coach Butler's leadership. I've got a feeling (fingers crossed) that we'll like what we see.
     
  9. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    This is my biggest regret about DL retiring. The defense will play well under Butler and everyone will say, "see! DL had to go". As I have said many times, the defense has been in transition, just like the offense before which is now bearing the fruits of its labors, so is the defense and would have fully returned to glory under DL. It's always been about the players, players that Butler will benefit from coming in at the right time to work with.

    You always say to me, isn't the coach responsible for anything? Answer is yes, a master like DL takes a talented group and produces one of the best defenses the league has ever seen. Hopefully Butler has that in him too.
     
  10. ThrowToHeath

    ThrowToHeath Well-Known Member

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    I can attest to this for sure. I was one of the biggest supporters of terminating Haley before last season. Same deal, the offense was in transition. Now that it is in place and the players played how they should, Haley looks great and I don't want him terminated. Same deal will happen on defense.
     
  11. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    Dick LeBeau had his time, just like Chuck Noll had his, and Steeler fans will be forever grateful for his contributions to the organization. I know I am. He helped to restore some of the fear our defense used to place in opposing offenses. An influx of great talent certainly helped as well. But I still think over the last few seasons it seemed to be more about LeBeau than it was about getting our young players involved and effective sooner. The schemes grew tired and opposing OCs seemed to figure them out. I realize there was a dropoff in talent as well but isn't a "great" coach supposed to be able to take the talent he has and get the most out of it? Anyway, I hope Butler is to LeBeau what Cowher was to Noll, a successor who carries on the tradition of greatness established by his predecessor.
     
  12. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    How do you know he wasn't? I think he was, given what he was working with. No coach wins a SB without talent and as I pointed out, not every coach can take that talent and produce a defense as great as DL did in 2008.
     
  13. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not arguing that DL was a great coach, I happen to think he was. What always bugged me was that some on this message board felt that he should be untouchable based on his past accomplishments and they always wanted to give him tons of credit when he had talent but absolutely no blame when the talent pool was diminished. When the D was dominating he was a defensive genius but when the D was getting burned and giving up huge plays every week it was a lack of talent. If we are going to say that DL doesn't deserve all the blame for the recent problems the D has encountered because of a seeming lack of talent (which I'm willing to do) are we also going to say that he doesn't deserve all the credit when the team was loaded with talent and dominating? :shrug:
     
  14. turtle

    turtle

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    I don't have any concerns with the defensive line. No big concerns with the inside linebackers either.

    I have minor concerns with the outside linebackers. Can JJ and Deebo stay healthy? JJ has shown a propensity to being hurt and he's being backed up by the aging (albeit physical specimen) JH. How will Moats do as a full time starter? I think he will be fine, but that's just my guess and opinion. Like I said, very minor things. The talent is their in the starters and immediate back ups which is more than half the battle.

    I'm not too concerned with the corners like most. I believe Allen rebounds and Golson/Grant can contribute early on. Golson moreso than Grant. It is Butlers first year as DC and will throw in some new things and play call differently than DL. This will cause some opportunities for the defensive front 7 imo that will help bandage some of our CB play until they can be relied upon to be given more responsibilities.

    I have the most concern with the safety positions. I did not like Mitchell last year and am praying the groin thing was really the culprit. Although I am a firm believer in Shark, he hasn't started at the position. Just a lot of question marks for me there.

    Overall, I'm optimistic about the defense and am anxious to see how the young guys step up.
     
  15. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    my biggest concern about def line is to find as soon as possible a cam thomas replacement .do you think we go outside or we have already in the house?
     
  16. turtle

    turtle

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    I think he's in house, their are a lot of potential replacements. They're just holding on to the known commodity until training camp to see which one of those guys has the most upside.

    I like the little I've seen of Leterrius Walton our 6th rounder. Hope he makes a splash.
     
  17. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    No coach is above blame but I think some have unrealistic expectations of just how much a coach can do with a player. Talent will always be the key to winning, a good coach just knows how to put that to its best use, like DL did in 2008.
     
  18. SteelTerp

    SteelTerp Well-Known Member

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    Call me "darth pessimist" but I think that is silly. Dreaming up the mindset of an over-agressive FS, and a way undersized SS as a reason for why we shouldn't be concerned... just take off the rose colored glasses for a minute
     
  19. bedwyr

    bedwyr Well-Known Member

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    Really?
     
  20. Steel Blitz

    Steel Blitz Well-Known Member

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    I prefer to leave on the B&G glasses... it's only OTA's for crying out loud. And, do I think it makes a difference when a long-tenured star is no longer part of the team (especially when that person has defined part of the strategy), yes I do. I've experienced it as a player, I've seen it happen as a coach... and I've seen it happen in business as well. It's just part of change. I certainly don't think Mitchell and Thomas will be anything like the combination of Clark and Troy, but I do think they will now take on the ownership of defining their own destiny as a pair that must work together well for our DB line to be successful.

    and... you can call yourself whatever you want... but I certainly don't think it is silly to think that the secondary couldn't truly change into it's next iteration with Troy still there. But, we shall see... we shall see.
     
  21. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    what makes you believe shamarko is the starter ? right now we are going tampa 2 with allen and mithcell , shamrko will sub in some packages and will play special team (where he is good ) if he can stay healthy .
     
  22. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Cam Thomas is a backup, so it"s no big deal.
     
  23. Hi5Steeler

    Hi5Steeler Well-Known Member

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    I agree, we have the pieces to potentially be the #1 Defense in the NFL.


    But as Louis C.K. says....... BUT MAAAAAYBE......just maybe......


    Jarvis is injury plagued, Moats plays as an average journeyman, Dupree has rookie troubles, Harrison at 37 cant get it done this year, cortez never figures it out, blake is too small, golson is too small, will gay starts slowing down with age, shamarko is too small, mitchell gets injured again/cant figure out our D and is shown to have had it easy with all star carolina D, Shazier is injured again, and Doran Grant and Holiman both get cut?

    Would that put us at the worst D in the NFL?
     
  24. Steel Blitz

    Steel Blitz Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's certainly presenting the worst of all scenarios. And, of course, it's possible. Just like it's possible that Brady loses his position entirely after sitting out 4 games and Garappolo lights up the stadium 4 weeks in a row. I just don't think it's very likely. All I'm saying is that in the game of "ebb and flow" regarding getting better or worse, I think there's a good chance that our D gets better this year. In NO WAY am I saying we'll be #1 across the board and shutout teams all year long (which would be the opposite of what you've proposed). I was merely trying to present a reasonable argument against what i perceived as overwhelming pessimism regarding out D's prognosis for this year. Who knows, maybe I didn't read as much as I should have on this board, but when I see people calling JJ a bust because his physique isn't matching the cartoon images of the "Super-OLB", I felt inclined to present a different perspective.

    Officially, I'm making the call that our D overall performs better. I think this will come with some moments of acute frustration for us as fans, but I think the D overall makes strides to move up a few categories across the stats board... meaning we get back into the top 10-15 team rankings of the league stats overall, and provide enough production to allow the offense to win games.

    I have no idea if this will be enough to get us a Divisional Title, AFC Title, or SB, but I'm certainly not going to Vegas tomorrow betting on the scenario you proposed. As a betting man, I'm betting we get marginally better, but better nonetheless.

    You combine that with an offense that lives up to 80% of its potential, and we are certainly looking at a chance to run to the SB with a few games being played at Heinz. Call it rose-colored glasses, but I just don't see a downside as precarious as I've seen discussed here lately, that's all.

    There's a LOT that needs to come together, and hopefully we make it through camp without any major injuries to guys we consider "automatic production". But to sum up the reason I made this post...

    I look at the other 31 teams D's and don't see anybody who doesn't have some area of concern. As far as potential is concerned... I think we're in the top 10 of the league. But, I certainly realize, potential is exactly what it sounds like, and if I had a crystal ball I'd be in Vegas right now, not blogging on this site! HAHA.

    We have the pieces... and I feel like the puzzle can be filled for a SB run next year. But, I'll keep evaluating... all I can say is... if you want to see what true desperation looks like, go do a run-down of the Browns roster and positional potential and let me know how you feel.

    GO STEELERS!
     
  25. Hi5Steeler

    Hi5Steeler Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying theres a chance the D fails?
     

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