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Will Steelers benefit from new extra point rules?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by MojaveDesertPghFan, May 20, 2015.

  1. MojaveDesertPghFan

    MojaveDesertPghFan

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    I can't use the acronym for "point after touchdown" because every time I see it in a headline or story I think it's another deflate-gate or spy-gate story. But - for 2015-16 season they've moved the 1 point kicking location to the 15 YD line and the 2 point location remains at the 2 YD line. Knowing what we know about the Steeler offense and defense abilities/trends from the 2 YD line do we benefit at all from this change? The league conversion rate this past year for kicking extra points placed at the 2 YD line was over 99% and FG's between the hash marks from the 15 YD line was 97%. I'm not going to take the time to check out the Steelers stats in these instances for either O or D but it should be interesting. I also think that 3 points should be awarded for converting an extra point try from the 15 YD line by any method other than kicking. :eek:
     
  2. WinTheNorth

    WinTheNorth Well-Known Member

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    Just caught a note that said defense can score on the 15 yard attempt. Seems odd they would not allow that from the 2yd attempt (or is that already in the books?)
     
  3. knab70

    knab70 Well-Known Member

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    IMO i don't see any team benefiting over another with this silly rule, regardless of conversion stats across the league. Id rather go back using the padded leather helmets. Don't fix it if it's not broken! :kapow:
     
  4. MojaveDesertPghFan

    MojaveDesertPghFan

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    I believe it's just the opposite - where if a ball is recovered say by fumble or INT by the defense during a 2 point conversion attempt (from the 2 YD line) - the defense can run it back for 2 points the other way. But if a 1 point conversion from the 15 is blocked or fumbled it's just a dead ball with no further scoring chance for the defense. Not sure what the rule was in past seasons for a turnover during a 2 point conversion attempt - probably just a dead ball (unlike college where the defense can score 2 points of their own).

    Also since I mentioned college FB - I hate the college OT scoring system. They should just keep track of the points and method scored in OT but the final score should just be 1 point extra for the winner - like hockey. Those triple OT scores of 73-70 are ridiculous since they are starting each series from the 20 (or 25 YD line?) rather than a full KO as in pro FB.
     
  5. MojaveDesertPghFan

    MojaveDesertPghFan

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    Whoops - I forgot about the possibility of an INT during a botched extra point kick attempt. I post this in honor of the gent most famous for a similar botched FG incident (during the SB) with the passing of Garo Yepremian a few days ago.
     
  6. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    our kicker has missed some easy ones in the past. just sayin.:cool:
     
  7. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    One way to make the PAT even less automatic would be to borrow an idea from rugby: instead of spotting the PAT at the middle of the field, spot it based on where the TD was scored. IF a WR catches a TD pass on right sideline of the EZ, spot the PAT on right hash mark on the 15yd line.
     
  8. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    Like field goals, I guess. I like that idea.


    And just to clarify - when they say the defense can score on extra points, can they score 2 points or 7?
     
  9. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    2pts, assuming they use the college rule. In college, if you block an XP or get an int on a 2pt attempt and return it all the way, the defending team gets two pts. It's rare but it does happen, and it meets they plays more interesting.
     
  10. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting to see if this causes teams to go for two more often. I've read detailed analyses by statisticians that argue that teams are too conservative and should go for 2 mores often (and go on 4th down more often).

    They're probably right, but then again the statistician's aren't putting multi million dollar salaries at risk or facing the ire of po'd fan base when they make mistakes -- like a head coach does.
     
  11. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    I think you might see it drop to 90%. If you think about it, a 29-30 yard field goals, are made about that much of the time.

    I do think defenses will try to block it a lot harder, which is a good thing.

    If I'm a coach, I would consider going for the 2 point for the win instead of a tie and overtime, with these newer rules. Actually, I never really understand why more coaches didn't go for 2 and the win.
     
  12. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Just more tinkering with a game that I saw as already being perfect. Or should say, "was perfect". Still love it but preferred the game of yesteryear.
     
  13. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    Seem to remember that being discussed on here a few months ago... there was that film on the 'team that never punted.' Don't know what happened to the thread though (my wife keeps pointing out to me that when I say something happened "the other day", it usually happened around ten years ago...)
     
  14. MojaveDesertPghFan

    MojaveDesertPghFan

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    The 97% FG rate from the 30 YD line was from the center of the field vs a lower rate - down to 90% from either hash mark. This doesn't seem intuitive though considering the predominant right footed soccer style FG kicking used. I agree with the more pro-active 2 pt conversion philosophy - even when the game isn't on the line at the time. If I had a Gronk at TE or the Fridge as my jumbo RB, I'd go 2 pt all day long until defenses could consistently stop it.
     
  15. BobbyBiz

    BobbyBiz Well-Known Member

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    I say move it back further. Move it to whatever yard line yields an 80% success rate.
     
  16. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, from 1971 to 73 NFL teams made slightly more than 98% of their PAT attempts. In '74, they moved the goalposts to the back of the endzone and the PAT sucess rate dropped below 92%. It took until 1994 for the sucess rate to get back to 98%.
     
  17. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    You'd have to move it back to about the 35 yd line. Which actually would make it interesting. Going for 2, would be more attractive in general. But, suppose you score a TD with a 1:30 left and it puts you up by 6. The other side has Brady or Peyton or Rodgers getting the ball with enough time. What do you do? Kick the 80% PAT and go up by 7 or go for the 44% 2 pt conversion to ensure at least OT, knowing that if you fail they can win with just the PAT.
     
  18. knab70

    knab70 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, basic and traditional.
     
  19. BobbyBiz

    BobbyBiz Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Lets make the PAT mean something. Lets make it interesting.
     
  20. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Thought it did mean something, an extra point. If you're going to move it back so far, hell, make it worth a FG. Lets make so many changes to the game in an attempt to make it more interesting that it doesn't even resemble the game we all fell in love with.

    To each there own I guess, I liked it just fine the way it was.
     
  21. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Whats your guess, when will kickers be obsolete?I believe the NFL is trying to eliminate this position.
     
  22. AFan

    AFan Well-Known Member

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    Well, you still have FGs and KOs. And they didn't really reduce PATs very much with this chane. So if the NFL is trying to eliminate kickers they're being very subtle about it. I think the rule change is simply a reaction to do something about the PAT that had become automatic. Nothing more.

    At the current rate, an average NFL team misses a PAT about once every 4-5 yrs. The exercise was becoming a ritual. So what to do? Keep the pageantry? Make a TD worth 7 and eliminate the PAT? Make everyone go for 2 all the time? Actually, the change they made was more kicker-friendly than getting rid of the extra point.
     
  23. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

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    I didn't like the idea at first, but I've warmed up to it. I'm more of a purist when it comes to changing the way football is played, but I think this will ultimately be a good thing. As others have pointed out, the point after is just a ritual. Doing something that encourages a little more competition or potential change in outcomes is OK with me.
     
  24. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I think the answer is yes, it will be an advantage to the Steelers - when we play at home. More globally, it's theoretically an advantage to all home teams who play in outdoor stadiums because their kickers should be more familiar with the wind patterns and effect on kicks than visiting kickers.

    It will be interesting to look back at the end of the 2015 season and see the home and away extra point percentages.
     
  25. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    I think I'll see how it pans out, though I'm also a bit of a purist. The first few times I watched Canadian Football, I was utterly confused by how 1 or 2 points kept appearing for each side, even though nobody had seemed to do anything... Conversions don't need to be complicated. This move by the NFL isn't too radical, I guess.
     

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