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Getting to know Keith Butler

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Blast Furnace, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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  2. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link. Good read. I hope he can bring back some respect to this defense cause lately teams have not feared playing the Steelers D the way that they did in the past.
     
  3. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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  4. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    That makes me smile and at the same time makes me a bit mad or frustrated not with Butler although he is partially the problem but with a team so set in doing what they do that they would not use a tool like Butler to the fullest. If he has an innate ability to know where every defensive play is supposed to be and dissect what offenses are trying to do then why in the name of H. E. double hockey sticks was that not being put to use and I don't know coaching up some of these guys? I mean we saw at times in the last few years departures from Lebeau's standard zone blitz scheme but were these guys so afraid of giving an offense to DL that they weren't speaking up an suggesting ways to improve. It is so very frustrating because it raises some questions that I don't think a lot of us want answered or at least don't want to hear the answers.
     
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I think the league was partly to blame for the taking away of the steeler way of defense. we gave up the catch and made them pay by being physical. we played defense with a physicality that took a toll on opponents during the duration of a game. the league took that away from us. I truly believe they also wanted to send an extra message to us about that style of play because we didn't fall in line immediately. it's part of what made us different in the past.:cool:
     
  6. SteelTerp

    SteelTerp Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious as to what you think the Seahawks DB's do. Because I'm pretty sure they're in back to back super bowls playing a style of defense which involves beating up WR's
     
  7. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Both of you guys are correct . The difference is you have to punish WR'S in the first 5 yards as opposed to after the catch.
    The next biggest difference is Seattle tries to turn the ball over and contest every catch where the Steelers are set up to allow the catch and they give up the quick throws.This all adds up to what I have been screaming about for 5 years . We don't have the DB'S to play man coverage nor do we have the Safeties to ball hawk and create turn overs.

    As a direct result we can't get pressure up front and all the great players in the world up front won't get pressure until you can defend the quick passes to at least a reasonable level . We are behind the curve big time and must try and catch up .
     
  8. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    I love watching Seattle's D. PWP is right about how they go about doing it, but added to this, they know how to avoid the penalties that our DBs get. Whether this is a training thing, an ability thing, or simply a more scrupulous attention to what is witihn and what is outside the recent rule changes, I don't know.
     
  9. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Seattle doesn't play defense the way we did, no one does anymore.
     
  10. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I truly believe it's not called the same for every team as I said. mike Mitchell was hit with way too many as was ryan clark when the same hits from seahawk defenders went unflagged. same hits, different results. look at the worilds hit last year. james Harrison fines and flags in the past. it's like well he does it a lot and he's not getting the message so the flag is coming out and we are going to force you to change to what we want. yes I do believe that happens.:cool:
     
  11. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    :this!: This may have been what I was trying to say in subtler terms.
     
  12. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    That's a great article. Thanks for posting, Blast.

    And, thorn, it really upsets me too but for a different reason. First of all, we are VERY lucky to still have a defensive coach of the quality of Butler. He had multiple opportunities to leave and didn't either of his own volition or because the Steelers would not allow it. Secondly, and I'm just being honest here, it kind of takes some of the luster off the LeBeau legend for me. Butler stuck around as LeBeau's successor and waited patiently for an opportunity. LeBeau's intent was never to leave but to coach the team until he died in the middle of the third quarter in some future game. That kinda makes me mad and, while I still respect DL for what he contributed to the Steelers over the years, he does seem to me to be a little on the selfish side for refusing to step aside voluntarily and give perhaps the next Dick LeBeau an opportunity.

    I know I'll get ripped for this but I'm curious what everybody else thinks. LeBeau is pushing 80 and was perfectly content with letting Butler languish as an assistant or, worse yet, allow him to move on to another team. Somebody stepped aside and allowed DL to advance. I just think it seems a little selfish that his intent was to NEVER step aside and he ultimately forced the Steelers' hand. He should have gone out with honor, dignity and class and be given the send-off that he earned. That would have happened had he simply retired and handed over the reins to his very capable successor. Instead he was essentially fired and is now seeking employment elsewhere. It just could have and should have been a happier ending.
     
  13. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    Jack, if you look at it from LeBeau's perspective... It's not his fault Butler was hanging around, waiting for a job the FO was dangling in front of him. That was an unusual situation, but not one of LeBeau's making, and he shouldn't feel pressure to take turns with someone. Butler earned plenty of opportunities, and ultimately made the choice to stay. I know that if one of my direct reports was great at his job and would be great at my job, I wouldn't quit for him if I wanted to keep my job.

    Now, if LeBeau had been a total Brett Favre about it, and faked a bunch of retirements, screwing over Butler in the process, then I would blame him. But he was honest about his intentions, every offseason. Butler had to make that judgment call for himself - would Dick die? Get fired? Retire? In the end, he stuck it out, and one of those happened, 11 years after LeBeau got the job.

    Personally, I believe that with fixed personnel, LeBeau would still be a dominant DC. I believe I'm surprised Butler waited as long as he did, and I'm kind of surprised the team finally pushed Dick out. I also believe Butler will be great as well.
     
  14. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    DL still had a lot to give, and remember he is still a HOF player with pride and still had tons more experience of being a DC then tomlin and butler combined. I don't think it's any surprise that he believed in what he was doing because not to many years ago he had quite the run of top 5 defenses in the league and top players doing it.

    I do believe it was time though. DL has done the NFL for so much of his life that it had become the norm for him and I think some team if that ten so be it will be happy to gain his knowledge. good luck to him and thank you.

    we have no idea what butler will bring to the table yet in the nfl. if I had to guess, he will do fine, but has yet to prove anything. he will be gaining a lot of players that have been trained by DL in DL's system so the knowledge gained should help butler be successful.

    I now have to wonder if we still look to the buckeyes as much as we did under DL or we start to branch out with our looks in the draft in other parts of the country a little heavier? this is the part of butler coming in that I want to see. I know DL looked elsewhere but he still heavily liked Ohio St. players and don't get me wrong we have picked some good ones, but we seemed to heavily recruit the Midwest and Northeast a lot. I wonder how butler will do things in that respect or if it will change under him.:cool:
     
  15. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree with any of this. I just wish the conclusion of LeBeau's career could have occurred on a more harmonious note.
     

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