1. Hi Guest, Registrations are now open. See you on the inside.
    Dismiss Notice

Need a NT, blah blah blah

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by MeanJoeBlue, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. MeanJoeBlue

    MeanJoeBlue Well-Known Member

    1,238
    451
    Jan 2, 2013
    So Bucky Brooks is part of the group that thinks the Steelers need a 1st round NT, despite having McClendon and McCullers. "The defense hasn’t been the same without Casey Hampton."

    I haven't seen as many people say "The defense hasn't been the same without Aaron Smith", or van Oelhoffen. I'm hopeful that having a 2nd year Tuitt opposite Heyward (instead of Cam Thomas) will improve the line play, without the need to search for a NT.

    If the Steelers can also find an OLB (draft or free agency) who can stop the run as well as rush the QB, the defense could very quickly get a lot better.
     
  2. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

    3,825
    239
    Oct 16, 2011
    I am for it. I like McCullers but he is not a starter. I have said and will always believe McClendon would be a better de but the coaches know more than me. I think he was put there out of lack of bodies.imo I am not saying we need to spend a 1st round pick on a guy but we at least need some quality depth
     
  3. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

    5,803
    453
    Oct 26, 2011
    We use so much sub package football I think drafting a NT is a waste of a pick .
     
  4. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

    10,707
    2,598
    Nov 5, 2011
    Repeat after me, Outside Linebacker, Secondary, Outside Linebacker, Secondary... repeat as necessary.

    Nose tackle? For depth maybe, late round pick. Casey Hampton as well as the Joel Steed days are over. So many sub packages are used now. This team is in dyer need at the two positions above.

    Tuitt/McClendon/Heyward I can live with as the base...
     
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

    27,702
    5,275
    Oct 22, 2011
    I agree with these guys as our base, but can macs shoulder hold up? not a good problem for a NT. he was to have surgery on it. pretty much a wait and see thing. if it doesn't respond well, McCullers is the only other option and that worries me. don't get me wrong I like McCullers and think he can be very good for us, but we need that second option as well. I'm not saying 1st round and Shelton necessarily but there are not a lot of those guys out there. maybe brown from texas. he looks pretty stout. davis from iowa is another guy that could actually fill in at NT and play some DE in a rotation.:cool:
     
  6. TerribleTowelFlying

    TerribleTowelFlying Staff Member Site Admin Mod Team

    22,610
    1,980
    Oct 12, 2011
    Durability is starting to become a bit of a concern, though, I haven't seen anything from the team or a news outlet indicating he's actually having surgery.
     
  7. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

    26,991
    10,034
    Oct 26, 2011
    If there was a Casey Hampton caliber NT available we should certainly consider taking him, but they are few and far between. McClendon is average at best. Too little to tell about McCullers but he is tall for a NT.

    A dominant NT does not need to come off in sub packages. Hampton did not until he weighed so much he waddled. He could crush the pocket which is great in 3rd and long.

    We also need OLB, CB & S.

    So, without reaching, take the highest rated one available with the pick.
     
  8. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

    26,991
    10,034
    Oct 26, 2011
    Dan Rooney:

    “We still strive to be a team with a strong defense” and toward that end he said they have work to do in the secondary, which “we need to focus on this offseason.’’

    This may provide some clue as to their thoughts.
     
  9. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

    10,242
    1,426
    Oct 17, 2011
    I wouldn't want to see NT picked first round, but something later to compliment our current 2 would be useful.

    I'm increasingly liking the idea of an all-defense draft, with perhaps one o-lineman. And, of course, some kind of scat running back who may or may not be able to return punts - that's pretty much essential.

    I have no issue with McLendon at starter, though. We all know Cam Thomas was a liability, and that regenerating this defense is going to take improvement in all areas. NT depth is a concern, but plenty of other positions starters are more so.
     
  10. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

    5,233
    100
    Oct 17, 2011
    Need not, but would with this coaching staff. Look no further than this last season as evidence. McLendon is hands down a superior pass rusher compared to Cam Thomas. McLendon is actually pretty good at it, especially for a nose tackle. He got his start with us playing in sub packages. Yet, they took him off and kept Thomas on the field, because that's just how they do it. In my opinion, it cost us some sacks and pressures and yards.

    Besides, our sub packages are a case to not spend a high pick on a NT, because, as the anti-McLendon crowd knows, he comes off the field on those downs. In the coming season it will be Heyward and Tuitt, and we're all expecting a decent pass rush from them. You just don't have that much to gain compared to what we already have if you draft a NT. It's a waste, especially when you consider our desperation at other positions.
     
  11. turtle

    turtle

    8,542
    1,375
    Jan 14, 2015
    I think JEH is saying that a dominant NT may not need to come off the field and reading between the lines, the defense changed the last two years because we did not have that stud NT, hence the sub packages. The DEs were asked to rush more as that suited the abilities of the d-line better. Does Butler want to stay with the sub packages or does he want to go with the 3-4 base more?? Tough to say, we will obviously know better next year.

    The coaches have said they like the sub packages to combat the various offensive spreads etc. But that may be, because the weapons we have now is best suited for that.

    It will be interesting to see come draft time. If a NT is taken early, that may give us an indication on their direction to a more frequent 3-4 base. If none are drafted, they'll go with the multiple fronts.

    I like McClendon at NT, but injuries tell me I would like him in a rotation with HeyHey and Tuitt at DE better.
     
  12. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

    5,233
    100
    Oct 17, 2011
    I don't think that's the case. I think they prefer DEs in the nickel. They always have, even when Hampton was in his prime. This isn't a recent thing. Big Snack came off and Kimo/Smith stayed in. The difference was that back then we didn't do so much nickel. You say that's because we don't have Big Snack anymore. I say that's because teams pass more now. It's a shift that I think has little to do with NT talent.

    Also, regardless of what we fans think of McLendon, I think we can all agree the team likes him a lot. They had confidence in him to take over when he was a no-name, and although they've drafted two NTs (4th and 6th), they were careful to caution against counting out Steve as the long-term starter. And despite Ta'amu showing promise, they cut his ass pretty fast. Also, both guys represented really good value at the time of the draft. McCullers especially, and we didn't have a backup.

    A 1st round pick on a dominant NT that stays in when we go nickel means one of two things: sitting a 1st round pick on the bench, or

    Pushing out McLendon and pushing down McCullers, who are not guys that needs pushed out and down, and pushing out Heyward or Tuitt in passing downs, who, again, are not guys we need off the field.

    To me, drafting a NT, even if he's great, is like drafting a WR. Yes, it could make us better. Of course, great players make us better. But the upgrade would be marginal when compared to the potential upgrade at so many other spots.
     
  13. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

    27,400
    6,621
    Nov 14, 2011
    :this!: McClendon is the starter, it would be foolish to use a high draft pick on that position there's too many other needs on defense. Before last years draft the mocks had the Steelers taking Louis Nix, in the later rounds if they draft a NT that's fine.
     
  14. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

    10,242
    1,426
    Oct 17, 2011
    I'd forgotten about the idea we'd take Nix. Looked like we dodged a bullet there, tbh - though perhaps not fair to judge until he's healthy.
     
  15. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

    27,702
    5,275
    Oct 22, 2011
    I could have sworn I read somewhere that he was scheduled to have surgery on it right after the season. maybe I misread it. if so sorry everybody about my shoddy reporting. :cool:
     
  16. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

    5,327
    1,364
    Nov 13, 2011
    I would go NT at the 1 spot if it was a Ngata type with a Jared Allen motor! Fool would never leave the field!
     
  17. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

    4,113
    672
    Oct 27, 2011
    If Danny Shelton is there when we pick I'll shot my TV if we don't draft him!!!!

    In the 3-4 a Solid NT is a must. McLendon I like and can play our swing DL. In fact he'd probably be a better player for us playing DE.

    Cajun
     
  18. freakfontana

    freakfontana

    5,445
    23
    Oct 19, 2011
    buy a chepear one so just in case ...;)

    looking at player comparison .....http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/danny-shelton?id=2552325
     
  19. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

    26,991
    10,034
    Oct 26, 2011
    I disagree with the comments that a NT has to come off the field or the team wants DE's, etc., etc. I think the team wants the best players on the field and if you had a NT who could crush the pocket and stuff the run, he should not come of the field.

    Aside from that, and upon further review, and with the exception of the word marginal, I see the wisdom in the comment highlited in red above. So.... best man available at S, CB or OLB.
     
  20. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

    5,233
    100
    Oct 17, 2011
    This team took out Steve McLendon for nickel and left Cam Thomas in. Steve can get it done rushing the passer WAY better than Thomas. Even Steve's detractors have to give me that. And the coaches never made the adjustment. Eventually they swapped Thomas for Tuitt, but before they did that, when Thomas was out there stinkin' it up every single play, they never took their perfectly good NT and let him stay in on passing downs.

    As far as I know McLendon is always in great shape so I doubt conditioning was a factor, but again, even if it was... Cam Thomas??? He's the biggest bowl of pudding on the team!
     
  21. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

    26,597
    1,251
    Oct 23, 2011
    I agree about McCullers. He's powerful but I just don't know if he's long term starter material. Dude can move some beef though. If it ever does click for him LOOK OUT!
     
  22. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    41,499
    8,937
    Oct 16, 2011
    If Shelton is there and another CB of equal or better value and they draft Shelton, I'll shoot my TV and then go and shoot your TV.

    Only way I'd be ok taking a NT in the first is if the other positions they need don't grade out well enough and would be too much of a reach to take at 22.
     
  23. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

    26,991
    10,034
    Oct 26, 2011
    Heck, I think you could. And if you could, and you were a NT, I would push to leave you in if you could consistently crush the pocket.
     
  24. GB_Steel

    GB_Steel Well-Known Member

    2,131
    117
    Oct 20, 2011
    Yup, agree.

    I want to strengthen our DL so we have a good swing 4th guy, but not at the expense of DB or OLB, depending on if we get Worilds back long term.

    A talented DB is priority #1 for me, but we shouldn't reach for that.
     
  25. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

    10,707
    2,598
    Nov 5, 2011
    Having that Tub O' Lard Cam Thomas on the roster next season would be absurd.
     

Share This Page

Welcome to the ultimate resource for Steelers fans. Sign Up Here!