Keep An Eye On Jerricho Cotchery

He got his first TD of the season on Sunday, so that means he's guaranteed at least 9 more over the next two weeks.

 

Of the many questionable FA dealings this past off-season, letting Cotchery go was not one of them.

It seems that, for all the other problems we have drafting, WR isn't one of them.

 

Cotch>Moore money being equal,not sure of the difference.

 

i will keep an eye on their pass rusher ..if ben doesn't get rid of the ball quickly could be a nightmare

 

Not sure of your point Snack,?

We have an embarassment of riches at the WR position...

But, Jericho, gave Ben a comfort zone, like Hines used to, or Heath used to...

Not sure he has that faith in Bryant, or Wheaton.. Even tho they have started to earn it.

I`m not sure that he trusts Heward-Bey, or Lance Moore, as much as he trusted Cotchery..

Just my opinion on it...

As long as we keep scoring, and converting third downs, I don`t care what their name is...

Won`t miss them, But I think Cotchery did a fine job, while he was here..

GO STEELERS!

 

Couldn't have said it better,If Cotch was still here and didn't leave for more money he probably would have had about 8-10 td's from #7. So another baseless point. Lance Moore is really tearing it up?

 

I think it's more likely that if Cotchery stayed, either Martavis Bryant wouldn't have seen the field as much and we lose that explosiveness; or Cotch plays as much as Moore has, and with similar results.

I liked Cotchery, and did want him to stay... but am more than pleased than the gamble of going with younger players has paid off so far, without having him eating up cap space.

 

My point was making fun of everyone who wanted us to compete to re-sign Cotchery, because losing him would mean losing 10 TDs. Of course he was great to have and had good chemistry with Ben, but the idea that he would repeat that incredible stat, and the idea that we couldn't replace those TDs, I find to be stupid.

That's some argument you got there. You're right. Cotchery still would have landed 10 TDs if he was here. I don't know what I was thinking. I guess after you subtract the 2 TDs Moore has, that means Ben would have 8 more than he currently has, for a total of 37 on the year. How did we pass that up??

Yeah, I thought that was clear. I'm surprised I got any push-back.

Ben already has 1 more TD this year (29) than he had all of last year (28). This is the second most of his career. With two games left, he could definitely break his personal record (32).

11 Brown
7 Bryant
3 Miller
3 Bell
2 Wheaton
2 Moore
1 Spaeth
1 Palmer

*Numbers add up to 30 because Antonio Brown threw a TD pass.

It was great having Cotchery. He was there for Ben. But I disagree with anyone that says he hasn't been replaced. Not just by Moore. Ben has had plenty of security in his receivers this year. They've been there for him. Brown, the #1 target, has been a security blanket. Miller too. Wheaton came through early, and again in recent weeks. Moore has done pretty well when given the opportunities. The biggest security blanket of all, of course, has been Bell, who has bailed the team and Ben out a bunch of times (76 rec, 765 yards, 3 TDs).

Then there's Bryant, who has offered size, speed, and explosion we haven't seen since... I don't even know how to finish that sentence. If Cotchery was still here, the best thing to do with him would be sitting him on the bench in favor of the other 3, like we've done with Lance Moore.

 

Do you think Martavis Byrant would have been drafted? How about if we will still drafted him, do you think he would have seen the same amount of playing time? How many TD's does Martavis have? Add it up Dick Tracy.

 

Yes, as we had Lance Moore as the plug in replacement for Cotchery.

Probably, which would have meant we overpaid on Cotchery.

Cotchery would not have scored the TDs that Bryant did. They're two totally different receivers.

 

I agree 100% with ya' on this.

I am much happier with Bryant's play than with Cotchery.

Now my belief in Moore is this; we have so many other weapons that Ben can target (and he trusts) that Moore is a player who is the after thought- the dump off guy- and he can play out of that. No wonder he doesn't have big numbers.

 

Good lord, man.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but aren't you the one that thought Mike Wallace had more upside than AB? Aren't you the one that pulled up an old thread that TTF asked why not a new one. Had to really go back I think it dealt with similar discussion to try to prove a point to me? Don't bring no knife to this gunfight.

 

And don't forget the money.

Jerricho Cotchery
Age: 32
Contract: $8M over 5 years ($1.6M/year)
Guaranteed: $2.25M
Dead money if cut:
2014 - $2.25M
2015 - $1.8M
2016 - $1.35M
2017 - $900K
2018 - $450K
Lance Moore
Age: 31
Contract: $3M over 2 years ($1.5M/year).
Guaranteed: $645K
Dead money if cut:
2014 - $645K
2015 - $322K
2016 - n/a
2017 - n/a
2018 - n/a

Martavis Bryant
Age: 22
Contract: $2.67M over 4 years ($665K/year).
Guaranteed: $439K
2014 - $110K
2015 - $110K
2016 - $110K
2017 - $110K
2018 - n/a

Martavis Bryant and Lance Moore both completing their entire contracts costs less than keeping Cotchery for 3 years on his.

If we could have signed Jerricho to the Lance Moore deal, I'd have happily gone for it. But then I'd have played him the same amount we're currently playing Moore, in favor of Bryant/Wheaton/Brown. Lance Moore, for a guy who'd never been on this team, and is getting way less money, has played the role well.

 

I'll be honest, I didn't see AB becoming this good. And I don't know anyone that does. I loved him, but I didn't ever expect him to become the absolute best receiver in the league, and that's what he is now, in my opinion. I thought his ceiling was around the 5-10 spot, at best.

You don't have to wonder what I said about Mike Wallace and AB. I'll copy/paste the saga I posted after my 2011 grades (found here). This was the offseason we offered a contract to Wallace, he turned it down, and we signed AB instead. This was the year of the debates. In 2012, Wallace put in noticeably less effort on the field in what looked like an effort to stay healthy so his health wouldn't be a concern for prospective teams. I'll include the individual comments I made about them, followed by the extended explanation I posted in the thread.

MW: He might only be two-tenths of a second faster than the other guys, but that makes a huge, huge difference on the field. He just flies right by defenders trying to cover him. He gets open deep like it's nothing, several times per game, sometimes half a dozen. When the throw is there, it's a completion or a touchdown. I know people call that a "trick," as in "one trick pony," but in my mind if you can get THAT open deep THAT often, then the "trick" is along the same lines as a quarterback being able to throw an accurate pass, or a running back being able to break tackles. If we could just make a decent throw on half of his deep routes... He has good hands, will bring in some difficult balls, but doesn't make the remarkable catch as regularly as Antonio Brown. Runs good routes, is very dangerous with the ball in his hands, always a threat to gain extra yards or all the way. Doesn't care much for blocking, but gets in there sometimes when it's relevant.

AB: Dynamic overall player. Fast, elusive, always a threat to gain extra yards or go all the way. Figures to be a good deep threat, but hasn't been used much in that way. Good return man too, but that is probably over. Good hands, capable of making great catches. Good route running, good footwork. Has a knack for coming up in clutch situations. Not much of a blocker and doesn't look like he cares to be, but gets in there sometimes when it's relevant.

Their scores (my subjective grades, like PFF) were remarkably close. It's hard to even say whose score was better - essentially a tie. Here are their stats on the year:

MW - 72 rec on 114 targets (63.2% catch rate), 1193 yards, 16.6 avg, 8 TDs
AB - 69 rec on 124 targets (55.6% catch rate), 1108 yards, 16.1 avg, 2 TDs

My extended analysis: Antonio Brown has a higher receiving score than Mike Wallace, despite having fewer receptions and yards and touchdowns. This is because many times the quality of his receptions was higher than the yardage it produced. For example, Antonio might make an amazing one handed catch on the sidelines for 12 yards and receive a +3. Mike Wallace could get a standard issue burn-the-DBs 42 yard touchdown the next play, and also get a +3. AB made lots of great catches, many times on 3rd down and in traffic, to earn extra points throughout the year. Wallace earned slightly fewer points, but outproduced AB in yards and TDs. You could take that information any way you want, whether you choose to call AB the superior receiver because of his skills and production at critical moments -- a valid argument -- or Wallace the superior receiver because of his overall effect on the game and big plays and points -- another valid argument. One obtuse way to look at it is to say Brown plays better than Wallace, but Wallace gets us more. And although Brown is clearly not in Wallace's league in getting deep, and Wallace hasn't shown Brown's incredible toughness over the middle, neither receiver was exactly lacking in the other's department. Brown made some big yardage plays and Wallace made some nice catches and did great running with the ball.

Bottom line is: say what you want about Mike Wallace, if we had a QB that could throw an accurate deep pass to him, he'd never stop scoring touchdowns. He was wide open, by himself, with a large cushion on the DBs, multiple times per game. People got on him for not being very good at catching contested throws, but I always thought if the WR got wide open, our QB should be able to hit the guy in stride.

That's my thinking as of the post-2011 offseason. And I still agree with that. The only thing that's really changed was Wallace's effort in 2012. I was very disappointed in that. It was like he was sleepwalking at times. The kind of thing that ripples throughout a locker room. If he was going to play like that, I'd rather take my chances with a mid-round draft pick. If he was going to play like he had up until the point they offered him a contract, I'd gladly have kept him on a 5 year, $42M deal.