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Markus Wheaton to many snaps

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by PWP, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    Wheaton is getting to many snaps , he is having great trouble getting off of Press Coverage . His route running has been very poor as of late ...He does not require double coverage he is not creating any space for other WR'S. I am not saying he is a bust but I don't think he is the next Brown or Sanders either....The Team will have 2 weeks to evaluate the film and his overall play should dictate more snaps for other WR'S..

    When we go to our multiple WR sets Teams are putting bracket coverage on Brown and Man coverage on Bryant and Wheaton they put their #2 CB or #2 best coverage guy on Bryant so even though DHB doesn't get a lot of balls he does take the #2 coverage guy or he gets bracket coverage as well .....This is huge for Bryant and the OL and Big Ben ...Really simple math if you bracket 2 guys and cover another that's 5 Defenders that can't rush the QB...

    Ben plays very strong when 6 guys rush he plays average when they send 5 or less and he plays horrid against 6 or more coming . So the magic # is 6 that creates optimal space for the pass and it creates optimal time for Ben . The key to forcing this # is Brown , DHB, and Bryant this spreads the D thin opens up holes for Bell to run and to catch in , it also opens up space for Miller as well....

    Mark my words the next time you see this Offense explode it will be when we get in the above 3 WR set more . I just hope the Team sees it and uses these 2 Weeks to perfect that set , it is by far our most dangerous set ....
     
  2. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with your opinion of DHB, but otherwise agree with everything you said. Wheaton is seeing far too many snaps. He's just not that good. I'm not writing him off yet, but so far, he's very mediocre, bordering on bad. He gets no separation at all. Bryant is regularly beating his man and getting open. Bryant needs to be on the field a lot more than Wheaton. A lot of the times we were in a 21 personnel package the WR opposite Brown was Wheaton. That's a huge mistake. I don't like DHB, but he can open up the field a bit for the other guys. We need more 11 personnel packages with Wheaton on the bench. This will open things up for all the receivers as well as Bell out of the backfield.

    Forget the 2 TE set, we don't need a guy in there blocking. If we can't block the pass rush, slow them down with quick passes and screens. Keep it up until the rushers appear to slow down, then take advantage of the intermediate and deep routes.
     
  3. Coastal Steeler

    Coastal Steeler

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    PWP I think it will happen and not long for other teams catch on. Ben will stop throwing it DHB's way. He can't catch a cold
     
  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I think Wheaton has the talent but there just seems to be a disconnect between him and Ben.

    Bryant should be the #2 and put Wheaton in the slot or Moore, I'd probably feel more comfortable with him there right now.
     
  5. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    You could very well be right .. Maybe DHB still can't catch ,maybe he can catch better than he used to ? We really don't have enough body of work to tell ... The 1 thing I can tell is Teams are still showing him mad respect and as long as they do that really no reason for the Team to find out if he can catch or not ..

    Coaching 101 if the threat of doing something helps us do something else then you keep doing it until the other Team stops paying attention to that threat ...

    To me it's the way guys our Coached on the back end ...All DB coaches tell them over and over and over again (don't get beat deep) ....Then enter DHB who is still clearly a burner so this gets that FS thinking about that speed ...Also I am sure other Teams respect the ability our Team has to build WR'S ,couple that with the good tape DHB put up in the pre season Teams are kind of forced to respect the fact that maybe DHB is no longer a chump...As stated as long as they are scared to make the call then it doesn't matter what cards we have....The truth to me is we don't really know either , but fine with me as long as we keep raking in the chips...
     
  6. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    I agree that Wheaton may well be more effective in the slot.

    Is it a blocking issue that keeps him at no. 2? (That seems to be the number one decider when it comes to depth at WR here....)
     
  7. Steel_in_DC

    Steel_in_DC Well-Known Member

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    I have mixed feelings on this approach. I am confused why there has been so many issues with Ben and Wheaton being on the same page and I agree that Wheaton isn't doing a great job of making the initial moves to beat his man off the line of scrimmage. But we saw last game that Bryant is pretty raw. Those misses in the end zone by Bryant were due to Ben, but they were also squarely on Bryant as well and Ben indicated that after the game that he needs to use his body and fight for those balls. To Wheaton's credit too he did make a big reception on that last drive where they were able to run out the clock.

    Generally though I agree that trying Wheaton in the slot may be a better approach - there would be less pressure to beat your guy outright as opposed to slants where it is less about beating the corner and more about getting to the right spot and positioning yourself correctly to receive the pass...something that Wheaton right now is better at than Bryant. Where-as Bryant is a better deep threat and just outright physical presence.
     
  8. rukus4ever

    rukus4ever Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what's going on with Wheaton. Sometimes it looks like he's in the wrong time zone to make the catch.

    Bryant will easily get to the point that he's being physical with DBs. That's going to come with time. He'll figure out what he's comfortable with and how to fight off defenders.

    If blocking is the issue with Bryant, then I'm sure coaches are telling him that, in practice. Hopefully, he'll get there soon.

    I agree with keeping Wheaton in the slot. His speed would make it difficult for LBs and/or nickel backs to keep up with him on quick slants and drag routes. But he'll need to control that speed to find soft spots when other teams run zone coverage in that area.
     
  9. 58stillers

    58stillers

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Bryant took a step back against Tennessee. The one long ball to the end zone, I was disappointed to see him just standing waiting for it, as opposed to taking a step or two back to catch it. Two targets in the end zone were both (tough) but catchable balls.
     
  10. Steel_in_DC

    Steel_in_DC Well-Known Member

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    I don't even think they were tough catches. If he just recognizes where the defender is and comes a little back towards the ball he probably either makes the catch or draws pass interference.
     
  11. numbah58

    numbah58 Staff Member Mod Team

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    Bryant should be the #2 IMO.

    Ben was way late delivering the ball to Bryant on the first ball. Bryant had his man beat by 4 steps. Sorry but #7 was to blame for that incompletion.

    In #7's defense, it wasn't his best night but he made the throw to AB to put us ahead..
     
  12. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    I thought the same - it reminded me of what a lot of people were saying in preseason, about him needing to go up and get the ball rather than wait for the flag.

    I know others on here put the blame on Ben for that one, and tbh I've not looked back over it, but certainly at the time I thought Bryant could have done more.
     
  13. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    Easier said than done. The first one, the ball was a high floater. He can't really come back to it much or he wouldn't be in the right spot to catch it. It was a really poorly thrown ball. The second one he was moving in one direction and the ball was thrown a little bit in the other direction. He could have done a better job with both, but at the same time, DB's get paid to make plays too, and the ball was put in a spot that allowed the DB to make a play on it.

    Bryant beat his man on both plays and got open. He did his job. Ben needed to do his job and get Bryant the ball. Bryant is kind of getting trashed here even though he did what he was supposed to.
     
  14. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    I think putting Wheaton in the slot would help him , but hurt the Team . Poor route running outside a lot less dangerous than poor route running in the slot....If the QB expects you to get off the LOS on a slant and you don't probably a pick 6 ....

    Best set is the 2 by 1 ... Brown as the single WR gets bracket coverage he has proved he can beat so the rest of that side of the field open for Miller or Bell...

    DHB and Bryant Wide to other side , basically no slot WR bracket coverage for DHB single coverage for Bryant rest of the field open for Miller or Bell.....
     
  15. Steel_in_DC

    Steel_in_DC Well-Known Member

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    And I say if you want to be a top flight wide receiver in this league you can't expect your QB to throw a laser beam right in your mitts on every pass, you need to help your QB out some too. Antonio Brown has worked back for balls numerous times. The TD catches in the games against Houston, Indy, and Baltimore he did a great job of getting open, but Ben also threw absolute strikes to him as well. He did not do that in the game against Tennessee and I think it had something to do with him seeing a lot less action in the 2nd half. Ben's passes were not great, especially the 1st one, but if the receiver recognizes the throw is going to be off or short, adjust your route a little and make a play on the ball.
     
  16. 58stillers

    58stillers

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    I'd also add that my comments are a bit nit picky, but warranted. It's his rookie season, I think Bryant has contributed nicely and hopefully will continue to improve.
     
  17. Coastal Steeler

    Coastal Steeler

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    Didn't the defender got a hand on the 2 Bryant missed
     
  18. Busman

    Busman

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    Yes I think so Thigpen82.. I have watched him quite a bit throughout our last few games. He seems to block fairly well.
     
  19. Steel_in_DC

    Steel_in_DC Well-Known Member

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    Yes the DBs did, especially the first one, but Bryant did little too change his route or adjust to make a play on the ball. The second pass especially he wasn't even running a hard fast route he was slowing down which would have made it easier to adjust and move towards the ball. The DBs made nice plays, but I would say Bryant's lack of adjustment made it a lot easier for those DBs to make plays.

    Also - I agree w/Busman - this is all a bit nit-picky, Bryant has been a valuable addition and he currently looks like he has more upside than Wheaton - but he is also a lot more raw and needs to be more adaptable because the QB is not going to throw a dart every pass.
     
  20. ThrowToHeath

    ThrowToHeath Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed that they seem to hve Wheaton running more complicated routes. Brown can always run any route to great effect, but he does get all the simple slants, ins, outs, and crosses.

    ive also seen all the receivers, including brown run wrong routes, and Ben throw to wrong spots. I think Wheaton has definitely shown he c an be a playmaker. Same with Bryant. Brown/Bryant/Wheaton in any order should be our top three receivers. The Broncos use Thomas/Welker/Thomas, so they all see the field a lot. Same should be with our guys.

    Moore is a great 4th. DHB should not be on the field. He literally doesn't do anything. The other guys are almost as fast, even Bryant.

    all this talk about who should start doesn't really matter, because the steelers start three receivers, Brown/Wheaton/Bryant, as they should.

    final thought, Wheaton has run some bad routes, but he has much much better hands then the rest of the receivers outside of Brown, and he blocks well.
     
  21. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Bryant will eventually be the #2 next year. If Bryant starts progressing and looks less like a Rook, my ideal line up is

    #1 AB
    #2 Bryant -- Deep Threat/Redzone
    #3 Lance Moore --- Move the chains on 3rd down
    #4 Wheaton --- does a little of everything good, not great. Good Kick off returner.
     
  22. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    wheaton closed a crucial 3down on a slant too
     
  23. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    I disagree that Wheaton should be limited in his snap count or that he will be replaced by Bryant as the #2 next year.

    Wheaton - my recollection of him last year was that he was a bit of raw talent as well. Not only did he miss time due to injury, but as a rookie, he was behind AB, Sanders, and Cotch on the depth chart. He starts this season as the number 2, thus different routes, so he needs time to polish up. Limiting his snaps won't help him improve. The team needs to work through his issues just as much as they've needed to work through issues on the oline or secondary. Players need to play. Given that he is the #2 this year, he's at the pinnacle position on the team for the foreseeable future as #1 is set in stone. Next year, he will be better than he is this year. Unless of course he were to be benched.

    Bryant - still a raw talent, didn't get a hat the first few weeks of the season because he wasn't ready. He's caused us all to have high expectations. Certainly he could have made a better effort, on the first drop in the endzone, but so could have Ben. What if Ben would have thrown the ball more towards the back pylon? Instead of waiting on the ball, he would have been able to adjust to it where the defender wouldn't have made as good a play. I do have to wonder how much of the playbook he has been exposed to. The team hasn't done much via no huddle since he came into the lineup. I have vivid memories of Brown, as a rookie, in the superbowl, being confused on the last drive. So give Bryant time. I'd love to see a tough competition for that #2 spot. But the only way Bryant gets it, is if he takes it like Brown did from Sanders (Sanders' injuries his 2nd year didn't help him much either).

    As for DHB, if he can keep the double teams away from AB, then put him on the field. Ben hasn't thrown his way much, but he doesn't have to for his presence to be successful and help the team.
     
  24. rukus4ever

    rukus4ever Well-Known Member

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    This is not a new phenomenon, on this board. The problem is there was a failed play and Ben was involved. Ben doesn't make mistakes so it had to be the other guy... #Obviously :lolol:
     
  25. SteelerJJ

    SteelerJJ Well-Known Member

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    Wheaton seems to be Andre Hastings like serviceable. Maybe he will get better with time.
     

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