1. Hi Guest, Registrations are now open. See you on the inside.
    Dismiss Notice

"Mobile" vs. "Running" Quarterback

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by STEELWINDS, Jan 19, 2022.

  1. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hello Everyone.

    So, who will be our next Quarterback, presuming Ben is gone which seems in all likelihood a done deal? A Veteran or a Draft pick? From what I have read here and there, it seems like Coach Tomlin wants a Veteran and one who is Mobile. Either way though, a Veteran or a Draft, possessing the characteristic of “Mobility” is non-negotiable it would seem.

    I want to focus on Quarterback Prototype for this thread. As stated, from what I have heard, Coach Tomlin wants a “Mobile” Quarterback to lead our Team next season. NOW, let us have a clear interpretation of what the term “Mobile” means, IMO.

    To me, there is a clear distinction between a “Mobile” QB and a “Running” QB. It is synonymous with the “Fight or Flight” Theory. Keep in mind that the Quarterback has to be a “Thinker” out there on the field of play and one who often has to be decisive within a split second of time.

    Think about it. There are twenty-two men running around this 100 yard field at superior speeds which could best be described as an “Organized Chaos”. There is so much going once the ball is snapped. The QB has to be able to “Decipher” through all of that “Organized Chaos” in a matter of seconds. NO EASY TASK. That is why you hear so many times that Quarterbacks state in their second year:

    “The game is slowing down for me” as they get adjusted to the NFL.

    Back to the “Mobile” QB vs. the “Running” QB concept. As mentioned, for me, It is synonymous with the “Fight or Flight” Theory. Ben was a “Mobile Quarterback”. He extended plays with his legs BUT he was able to go through multiple Progressions and usually ran only after that process occurred or it was a designed play. Again, Ben and most “Mobile/Thinker” QBs usually take off running only after surveying the field and going through ALL of their progressions first and filtering through the “Organized Chaos”.

    On the other hand, in too many instances, the “Running QB” will often “take off” if his first option is not open, MAYBE considering a second progression. We do not need, nor should we want, a “Running QB” IMO. Running QBs typically are not “Thinkers”. They opt for “Flight (run)” over “Fight (think)” more often than not. This will usually not end well as teams eventually figure out how to “bottle them up” and/or he gets hurt as his style of play is more conducive to injury.

    Again, the Quarterback is the main hub of a team. He is typically the focal point of a team’s successes and failures. More often than not, as his play goes, so does the outcome of most games. If Coach Tomlin is seeking a “Mobile QB” as stated, then hopefully he fully understands the distinction between the two prototypes outlined in this thread.



    STEELWINDS The East Side Kid
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 4
  2. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

    15,297
    4,320
    Nov 4, 2011
    I think it’s also worth noting that teams with “running” QBs will generally have more designed QB runs. In many cases “running” QBs are limited enough in their decision making and passing abilities that they need to have a lot of designed QB runs to be successful. I’ve been on record as saying that I do not want a running QB, but I absolutely want a mobile QB. A few designed runs here and there are great. Keeps the defense honest. An overload of designed runs is putting your QB at risk.

    Also, to be clear, just because a team calls a lot of designed QB runs doesn’t mean that the QB is limited to being a running QB. Case in point is Josh Allen. If he never ran the ball on designed QB runs, he would still be a top NFL QB. In my view the Bills’ OC puts him in harms way too frequently.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

    4,982
    684
    Aug 1, 2016
    Yeah, Tomlin keeps going on about mobility. Anybody can run better than Ben. Rudolph showed he could run a little if need be. Now if Tomlin is suggesting he wants a Kyler Murray or Lamar Jackson which have proven to not work. I don't think Tomlin and Matt Canada are the answer and going to coach those type of QBs up into being winners. Which means Tomlin's going to waste years and ruin his legacy and all the non losing season records and bs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    41,499
    8,937
    Oct 16, 2011
    I think too much emphasis being made between running and mobile. We are really just talking about athletic QB’s. Allen is the perfect example of that. He has designed runs as well as just takes off when he sees an opening. How they are used will be determined by the coach/OC. Herbert could absolutely do what Allen does, they just choose not to use him that way.

    In todays watered down league, I’m not at all worried about a QB that runs a lot getting lit up. Players have actually been conditioned to not hit them, I see this week in and week out where you think a defender could of drilled the QB but they don’t because they know that even a legal hard hit risks getting a personal foul. The sideline run is a perfect example where the defender lets up because they think the QB is going out but then the QB stays in bounds taking advantage of it. They really are almost at the point of putting a flag on the QB.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

    1,484
    346
    Sep 12, 2019
    Hey Steel_Elvis.

    Yes to your statement:

    "A few designed runs here and there are great. Keeps the defense honest. An overload of designed runs is putting your QB at risk."

    The key words here in your quote are "designed QB runs" as I also stated. That was Ben. He could run if he had to, or the play was designed that way. However, and again, we need a "Mobile-Thinker" type Quarterback. The QB is the most important "cog" in the Offense, and arguably the whole team overall. As I stated, in most instances, as the play of our QB goes, usually the outcome of the game goes.

    Again, we need a Quarterback that is a comprised blend of "Mobility" and "Cognitive Fortitude". The choice of our next Quarterback is going to be, in all likelihood, one of the most (if not the most) important Administrative Decision made within the Tomlin Era. Let us all hope they get it right.



    STEELWINDS The East Side Kid
     
  6. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

    5,945
    2,137
    Apr 22, 2019
    The term used to be scrambler, Staubach and Bradshaw were just that. Different Era, but a guy with an arm and legs that can extend plays is a dangerous combo..if he has the brains and courage to know when to use both.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

    26,991
    10,034
    Oct 26, 2011
    First he has to be able to throw deep accurately. Then you can add on the Chinese menu stuff.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

    1,510
    400
    Dec 21, 2016
    What concerns me is Tomlin's statements on wanting a "mobile QB" on 4th down and 2 point conversions.

    No one waits for a play to break down on 4th and short for a mobile QB to scramble and extend the play.

    It appears Tomlin wants to run bootlegs or have the QB keep the ball on an option in crucial situations.

    Tomlin has grossly overstated the importance of QB mobility several times this year. From that we know that Tomlin puts far too high a value on athleticism at the QB position (maybe other positions also).

    Ben ran a 40 time that was the same as Herbert, Allen, Mahomes and other QBs that are being called "mobile." Tomlin seems to want more than that. It's all inference and speculation until the Steelers draft a QB.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

    1,854
    367
    Aug 31, 2015
    You can count the # of running QB’s that have won sb’s on one hand. You need a passer that just happens to also have the ability to get out of the pocket when needed. Brady , Rodgers, Maholmes , Burrow, and Stafford are all pocket passers first runners second. Ben in his prime got out of the pocket and broke tackles as good as any QB but it was what he did with the ball after extending plays that made the difference .

    Guys like Lamar jackson will not win playoff games consistently . There’s so many of these types of qb’s to support this. Its also worth noting if they don’t learn how to pass first & run as a last resort at some point injuries will ruin their careers. The ravens will never be good until Lamar can pick apart a defense with his arm.

    its also funny to see a guy like matt stafford go from mediocrity to great by moving to a team with talent and good coaching. Proves once again that a good qb cannot do it by themselves. Put him in Canada’s offense with those garbage WR’s and O-line he’s back to being a 6 to 9 win qb.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  10. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

    29,851
    7,880
    Dec 23, 2020
    I have said it so much I'm just :beathorse:.
    Being able 2 run is great.
    It's really simple for Me.
    If Your Qb... let's say hurt His leg enough He couldn't run(Lamar) would Your team still be able 2 trust Him 2 play Qb, or would they automatically have 2 start the backups (Lamar).
    Simply if He couldn't run ....could He still play the position???
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  11. TRUCK

    TRUCK Well-Known Member

    239
    109
    Jan 10, 2016
    I just hope they don't go for Malik Willis which there is some buzz around the Steelers. He threw 6 picks over a two game stretch in college. He seems more like a running QB who can't throw that well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  12. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

    1,510
    400
    Dec 21, 2016
    What about Josh Allen who is great at going through progressions in the pocket but can also run?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

    29,851
    7,880
    Dec 23, 2020
    You know How I feel about Him. You just are wanting 2 start trouble. LoL. I don't see all the going through his progressions. I still see 2 reads, and run. I believe if He can't run....He can't play, but You know this . You just want 2 see arguments. LoL
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  14. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

    3,607
    736
    Dec 31, 2018
    So does that mean you wouldn't draft a QB that threw for 0 TD and 4 Picks in one game in his last college season?
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 2
  15. TRUCK

    TRUCK Well-Known Member

    239
    109
    Jan 10, 2016
    Well, if I were the Raiders, I'd draft him #1 and sign him to a 10 year guaranteed contract. Then I'd pick a punter with my second pick.
     
  16. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

    3,607
    736
    Dec 31, 2018
    lol

    by the way, that QB was Ben Roethlisberger.
     
  17. KMM

    KMM Well-Known Member

    1,350
    341
    Sep 17, 2018
    Let me push back on this.

    I see no evidence that QBs that run get hurt more often than those that don't or that QBs get hurt more often when running than passing.

    Examples:

    Russell Wilson had never missed a game in 9 seasons until this year. He got hurt, a dislocated finger, while standing in the pocket and passing.
    Josh Allen hasn't missed a game in three and a half years and when he did it was a sprained elbow after taking a hit in the pocket.
    Lamar Jackson hurt his ankle this year while scrambling and after passing the ball, not while running it.

    Meanwhile Burrow's knee injury occurred while in the pocket. By week 5 of this past season almost a third of week 1 starters were injured. Only Daniel Jones' injury, as far as I can tell, occurred while running.

    Going back in time, Ben got hurt fairly regularly, but I don't ever recall him getting hurt when running/scrambling. Steve Grogan never missed a game his career, iirc. Tarkenton rarely got hurt.

    The position by it's very nature means you're going to get hit a lot and I understand the thinking of running begats more hits which increases injury risk. The problem is I just don't see anything to back that up. QBs get hurt. A lot. More often than not, it's while standing still in the pocket, not while running.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

    1,708
    303
    Oct 1, 2020
    That's not true at all (bolded). Once again your M-O rears its ugly head in making a ant hill into a mole hill and constantly taking statements out of context. Based upon the Steelers success against Lamar Jackson alone it totally stunts your whole argument that a running/athletic QB is Tomlin's primary characteristic in looking for a QB. If the Steelers can keep Lamar Jackson in check on the regular I think Tomlin is smart enough to know by now that a running QB is good, but it cant be the beginning or the end of a proper evaluation of a great QB. He has to know that there is a potential ceiling for running QBs that great defensive minds will soon find a answer for so there's no way he's putting that much emphasis on a QB whose first instinct is to run or where the playbook is focused on the QBs running ability.

    Does he want an athletic QB? Sure, what coach doesnt? You need someone who has great pocket awareness, and can escape the pocket especially with a young, inexperienced front line... but a QB who can go read defenses, run thru his progressions, make great decisions, and accurate throws from the pocket I'm sure are the primary characteristics Tomlin is looking for in a QB. Hes seen enough of Mahommes and Brady to know that. To say that Tomlin has learned nothing from going against the most athletic and fastest QB in the league (and being for the most part successful against him) is asinine. I think hes just looking for diversity in the player because it puts a lot of pressure on the defense. Nothing more or less.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

    14,304
    2,167
    Oct 26, 2011
    Allen, being a (Big) QB can take a hit every so often. But as SE said no use in endangering the franchise QB. That being said there are many
    LB's, strong safety's waiting to end somebody's career. We are starting to see the wear and tear already with Lamaar Jackson.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

    15,297
    4,320
    Nov 4, 2011
    I think you’re looking in the wrong place. There have been very few of what I’m referring to as “running QBs” in the league. I’m not talking about guys who are a threat to extend the play or scramble for a first down by using their legs on designed pass plays. Im not even talking about using a guy on a designed QB draw on 3rd down or maybe a QB RPO in the red zone. I’m talking about guys who are part of the designed run game, and need to be a part of the run game to be successful. Lamar Jackson, Michael Vick, etc. When you turn your QB into a running back, you expose him to RB injury risks, and by that I mean both contact and non-contact injuries that RBs suffer all the time trying to make defenders miss. Here’s my key point: if a QB needs to run the ball to be effective, then even minor leg injuries that a more conventional QB could play through and be effective will render the running QB ineffective. How many times have we seen conventional QBs play through ankle sprains, minor knee injuries, hip injuries, etc. and come back to play just fine? It happens pretty frequently. By comparison, look at Lamar last year. How many weeks in a row was he close to returning, but didn’t return? Why do you think that was? Was he unable to take a snap and stand in the pocket to throw passes, or was he able to do those things but unable to be Lamar Jackson - running QB? QBs come back from ankle sprains in a week or two all the time if they don’t have to run as part of their job description. This past season Matt Corral played through an ankle injury for a few games that didn’t allow him to run, and I watched one of those games and saw him have one of his best passing games of the season. There may be a passing QB hiding inside that guy who ran 30 times in one game earlier in the season. I doubt that a guy like Malik Willis could do that (at least not yet). Take away his mobility, and what do you have?

    So this is my point again: it’s not just about major injuries. If a QB has to run to be successful, he’s not going to be effective when he gets nagging lower body injuries that would shelve a RB. If you expose him constantly, the chance of him suffering that type of minor injury increases with every run, and thus the chance of him having an injury that renders him ineffective increase as well. My point is that I do not want a QB who needs to be a part time RB to win. I want a QB who can move around and sometimes scramble as an added dimension, but can also win games when he has zero rushing attempts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  21. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

    1,510
    400
    Dec 21, 2016
    Michael Vick was injured chronically. Lamar Jackson may be destined for the same now. RGIII was abused.

    Yes, if a QB is the size of Josh Allen or Cam Newton they can run the ball with less chance of being hurt. They're bigger than 95% of RB. Russell Wilson is an outlier and he is extremely good at protecting himself when he runs.

    When a pocket QB is hurt they can stay in the pocket. When a running QB is hurt it usually cripples their game (literally).

    Pocket QBs dominate the most consecutive games started. Favre and the Mannings started how many in a row? Brady missed one season?

    No idea how you can think running QBs get hurt less. You're looking at the exceptions instead of the rule IMO.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  22. Karl

    Karl Well-Known Member

    1,809
    1,279
    Jan 19, 2022
    Ideally, you don't want your QB taking hits.
    Josh Allen is a big kid and can take a hit, but I'll bet Sean McDermott closes his eyes every time they call those plays.
    Josh Allen is also an exception.

    "Take what the defense gives you."

    That is the mantra.
    Aaron Rogers is a mobile QB that probably best exemplifies that.
    He is master of just moving in the pocket to extend plays.
    He can run if the defense isn't playing it.

    Wilson is an 'RB with an arm.' BUT, he has matured and has grown into the Rogers category.

    What I don't want is a Lamar Jackson of current. If the defense plays the lanes and forces him to pass, he becomes a liability.
    Maybe he grows out of that, I don't know.

    QB's of this new generation:
    Justin Herbert - Man this guy has a very high ceiling. He can move and he has a cannon for an arm. That TD throw against the Giants was a freak of nature thing.
    Josh Allen - Gotta love his development. Big guy with a cannon arm. Really coming on with is 'field smarts'
    Joe Burrows - Throwback to the 'Pocket Passer' but smart in mixing cadence, hard counts, reading defenses... Peyton Manning like.
    Mac Jones - About same as Burrows but developing in the Brady mold.
    Zack Wilson - Shame he's with the Jets. They will destroy him like they've done so many.
    Baker Mayfield - He's that 2nd tier guy, like it or not. When healthy he is good, when not, he sucks.
    Trevor Lawerance - Being in Jacksonville sucks. He had some really nice flashes, but that organization is just awful.
    Trey Lance - We've only seen bits and pieces. I only name him as he gets a lot of hype.
    Mahomes - He's sort of like Rogers as well. "Runs Smart"

    The AFC has better QB's than the NFC as a whole.

    For Pittsburgh, I can't stress enough how important a QB is in this league.
    I like the Allen/Herbert/Mahomes types.
    Sam Howell and Kenny Pickett are interesting prospects.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  23. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

    4,758
    1,289
    Dec 6, 2017
    No one knows what MT is thinking, seeing, or wants unless you are his brother or do lunch with him every day. I believe we'll know the answers when the next QB joins the team. JMO>
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

    41,499
    8,937
    Oct 16, 2011
    Exactly. You’re more likely to take a harder hit on a blind side sack then running. Jackson missed 1 game in 2019 and 1 game in 2020. Last season was the first time he missed multiple games and it was an ankle sprain, can happen to any QB.

    Ben only played 5 full seasons in his 18 game career. Worrying about injury risk is a waste of time, IMO. This isn’t daddy’s football, you just don’t really see QB’s being lit up anymore.
     
  25. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

    29,851
    7,880
    Dec 23, 2020
    Lamar got hurt running out of bounds in His last game against us when He stepped on the 1st down chain marker, but it wouldn't fit the narrative about running Qbs not getting hurt more running. So they tried playing Him the next game magically it was the same ankle He grabbed in our game. Yes he was (basically in the pocket), but about 12 yards backwards from the line of scrimmage in that next game when they actually admitted He was hurt.
    Low,and behold No more football for the rest of the season for Him. Even though there are shots of Him jogging in practice afterwards. Still No playing in games.
    Why???? Because He couldn't cut, and Run the same. He is a Qb , not a Rb, or Wr. Whether He can cut ,and run shouldn't be a issue.
    That's why I say simply.
    If You can't run.....can You still play Qb??
    If so..... Great . :thumbs_up:
    If not....You should not be a 1st round pick, or take up 11% , or more of Your teams cap ever.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page

Welcome to the ultimate resource for Steelers fans. Sign Up Here!