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Did Ben make them?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Dagmire, Feb 1, 2022.

  1. Dagmire

    Dagmire Well-Known Member

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    Ben had so many unknown really good WRs . So was it Ben or was it the Steelers finding talent no other team saw? Or a combo? Should the big boy get more credit? He certainly doesn't get credit for the single best TD throw in SB history.
     
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  2. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    I'd say Ben had outstanding chemistry with AB and Santonio. I wouldn't say he made them but I would say that they absolutely achieved their potential with Ben and wouldn't have had more success with any other QB.

    I don't think Ben had chemistry like that with any other of his WRs. I do think that pretty much every other receiver could have done as well or better with Manning, Brady, Brees etc.
     
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  3. dirty

    dirty Well-Known Member

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    If you were to have had Brady and Ben swap places. I think Ben might have done better there and Brady worse here. I just don't see how Brady would have survived behind some of the o-lines we have had.
     
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  4. Dagmire

    Dagmire Well-Known Member

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    Holmes got cut goes to the Jets an I'm almost positive he did nothing but it was the jets
     
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  5. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    All you have to do is look at the success of the wr's that left us and compare it to the stats they had here..... To the best of my knowledge, only a few did equal or better on other teams...
    Emmanuel Sanders
    Nate Washington
    Plaxico Burress

    After that, we're looking at total failures...
    For the future, we're looking at James Washington and JuJu... JW can only do better
     
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  6. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    His first year with the Jets he was pretty damn good. He was their number 1 receiver the year they played us in the AFCC. I still remember LMAO at him crying after we knocked them out.

    Holmes was injured a lot after he left here. He was still solid when he played.
     
  7. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    Ben gets plenty of credit for that throw. What are you talking about?
     
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  8. Karl

    Karl Well-Known Member

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    Ben was a "Field General"
    He owned the offense, and he had such a chemistry with his guys that they could improvise at any point.
    Somebody asked the definition of a "Franchise Quarterback"
    Well, it is guys like Ben.
    He certainly is not up there with the likes of Montana, Brady, Peyton and those types...
    But he can be mentioned with Elway, Fouts, Bradshaw (though he's 4-0 in SB's) etc,....
     
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  9. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Hines Ward had his best statistical season with Tommy Maddox. :shrug:

    Emmanuel Sanders had way better production with Manning.

    People want this narrative that "Ben made his receivers" but the receivers who left for decent QBs had no drop off in production.
     
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  10. LambertsDentist

    LambertsDentist Well-Known Member

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    Hines Ward was on the downward trajectory by the time Ben showed up. By the time Ben was more than just a game manager, Ward was long past his prime.

    Sanders did have much more success under Manning, but he was Manning's go to guy. He was Ben's number 3 receiver and as such was targeted much less. He'd have also been Manning's #3 target and targeted less if Manning had Wallace and AB.

    Buress played one year with Ben. Ben's rookie season, when he was a game manager.

    Let's also consider the good receivers we had who were less effective after leaving Ben. Wallace was nothing without Ben. AB was very good playing with Brady, but he was nowhere near what he was playing with Ben.

    I find it hard to believe that Colbert was able to find so many top quality receivers that 31 other teams overlooked, and suddenly lost that ability at about the same time Ben started to decline. Maybe Ben actually did make these guys better?
     
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  11. Karl

    Karl Well-Known Member

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    Antwan Randle El.
    Of course, he went to Washington which is a QB waste land.
    Never really panned out.
    He should have stayed here.
     
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  12. mikeyg

    mikeyg Well-Known Member

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    some of this is incorrect. Hines was at the end. Some of the names have been mentioned, Burress had 1 year w Ben. Wallace SUCKED post Ben. Sanders did blossom later, I was ready for his departure when it happened. Yes, Ben did a nice job of 'making' WR's....
     
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  13. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Hines played 8 seasons with Ben. They were all at the end?

    Burress exploded with the NYG. Eli and Ben were in the same draft class.

    Wallace had career highs for catches and TD in Miami with bad Tannehill.

    Ben did not have good chemistry with Wallace he forced throws to him. It arguably cost the Steelers a Super Bowl (that and Tomlin's obsession with FB/TE hybrid David Johnson).
     
  14. xcodizzlex

    xcodizzlex Well-Known Member

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    Ben was able to get them the ball. His Wrs made some pretty spectacular catches too, which pros should be able to do... but some were unbelievable. Ben threw some balls most qbs wouldnt dare take a chance on and got them completed. Ben was probably 70-30 responsible... i might even give his wrs a tad more credit 65-35
     
  15. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    He made Santonio
     
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  16. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    You didn't read where I said Ben had amazing chemistry with Santonio and AB and that they would not have done better with any different QB?
     
  17. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    He wasn't manning go to guy. That was DThomas. Tyreek and kelce in mahomes first yr of starting put up better numbers than they ever did with Alex Smith. Not an excuse with plaxico and rookie ben. Ab didn't get the opportunities he did with Ben. He looked no different than he did in Pittsburgh. He just was sharing the touches with 3 other pro bowlers. Wallace had his best season in Miami without Ben.
     
  18. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    AB could've balled with anyone competen.. Santonio could not. Ben made him into the stature he was viewed as. He was a average wr at best after puttsburgh and really is only remembered for that sb run. Never made an all pro or pro bowl. He wasn't all that to begin with.
     
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  19. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    The question is: if you swapped NE's coaching staff and the Steelers staff at the start of their dynasty, and left the QBs where they were, does NE win 6 SB's and do the Steelers do better in PO wins in the last decade? Who does better, Ben or Brady? Of course there is no right or wrong answer but only opinions of it would have been. JMO>
     
  20. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Yeah . Age has something 2 do with it. Is Ben also the reason the Bus best stat season wasn't with Him???
    Qbs make Wrs 92% of the time. Of course there are outliers. That's why I don't say 100% of the time.
    Not a lot of the time does a Wrs go 2 an average Qb ,and make the average Qb great, but We have seen " average wrs" go 2 great Qbs,and become great.
    There is a reason Ab didn't want 2 be shipped 2 Buffalo, didn't want 2 stay in Oakland( its why I hope he goes 2 the ravens). Also a reason OBJ disappeared in Cleveland, and all of a sudden has reappeared in LA. How about R Moss.....done they said . Goes 2 NE.....magically great again.
    For every example of a outliers some will bring up.....I can give 5 more examples of the opposite.
     
  21. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    I never really understood why Ben and Manny Sanders couldn't get on the same page... too bad we couldn't resign him.

    I think Ben definitely made Mike Wallace some money...
     
  22. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    OBJ? So you're saying Eli Manning is elite and considerably better than Stafford? OBJ's production was off the charts in NYG vs. LAR.

    Justin Jefferson, Deebo Samuel and Mark Andrews were top 6 in receiving yards. Did Kirk Cousins, Jimmy G and Lamar Jackson/Ty Huntley make them? Are they secretly elite?

    Lots of great receivers have played with average or bad QBs: Andre Johnson, Deandre Hopkins, Andre Rison, Larry Fitzgerald, AJ Green etc.

    Calvin Johnson went 78 1330 and 12 TD on the 0-16 Lions with Orlovsky and Kitna as QBs.

    A receiver is good whether or not the QB can get the ball to them. You're conflating statistical production with ability. I strongly disagree that QBs "make" receivers.

    Last year Tampa's leading receiver was 33rd in receptions. Was Tom Brady the worst QB in the NFL? Why isn't he "making" receivers?
     
  23. dirty

    dirty Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Tomlin basher although not very happy at the moment realizing I think we left some things on the table now that Ben is gone.

    But yes, I would think Ben does better. No way does Belichick allow Tebow to beat us like that or try to trip someone on a run back. :)

    And no way does Brady even sniff winning 6 SB's. I guess I'm admitting I think Belichick is a much better coach, but yeah someone has to be better and man does he find a way to get the most out of nothing sometimes.

    I almost feel like we have drafted better? At least better receivers. But I'm a homer though and don't follow other teams players that closely. I think everybody on Pit is a star in the making after one good play.
     
  24. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    He was waking and baking. LOL
     
  25. BowToTroy43

    BowToTroy43 Well-Known Member

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    Hines Ward, Emmanuel Sanders, Antonio Brown. Those are pretty much the only self-made WRs Ben played significant time with. They definitely could have succeeded elsewhere. There is a major caveat though in that they only ever played with other, great QBS (Peyton, Brees and Allen for Sanders, Brady for Brown). Everyone else, Ben made look good. Never forget Markus Wheaton torching the Legion of Boom for 201 yards and a touchdown. They gave up the most passing yards of their 8-year reign (2011-2017) to Ben that day.

    Fixed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022

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