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Cowher vs Tomlin

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by hmmmmm, Jan 19, 2022.

  1. JackAttack 5958

    JackAttack 5958 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not necessarily a FMTI guy, but the fact that many people on this board and in sports media want to give Tomlin a pass for absolutely pathetic performances in which they get blown out and embarrassed in big games, including post season games, is perplexing and downright bizarre. He’s the HEAD COACH for crying out loud! :facepalm:
     
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  2. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Why is Ben's Td run in that game never mentioned. Gave us the lead. Yet certain Qbs automatically next to their names is runs.
    Never understood how Ben is considering worst Qb winning a SB
    P. Manning 13- 23 141 yards 0 tds, 1 int, and 1 fumble. No tds what so ever. :shrug:
    Ben at least ran for a score.

    Payton Manning in 4 SBs......3 tds, 5 ints, 2 fumbles.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    His performance in the playoffs is the reason they were in the super bowl against Seattle. He made a few remarkable plays in both Super Bowls. In the Seattle game he had a deep pass and the WR was tackled at the 2 his ratings would have been a lot better if it went for a TD. Just because a team runs into the end zone doesn’t mean the QB had a bad day. He isn’t Tom Brady throwing 4 times from the one so his QB rating increases
     
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  4. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    His QB rating for 2005 postseason was 101 and the team produced 27 points per game. I would say he did very well and is very responsible for the rings
     
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  5. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    I've had this conversation with you before. Idk what quality of crack you keep smoking but you keep trying to sell to yourself and others this pipe dream that the Steelers had all these great teams since their last SB appearance and that fans should have had all these great expectations when in reality 2017 and 2018 were the only seasons on paper where the Steelers were a disappointment as far as playoff results. I could make a legitimate excuse that Shaziers injury was a big enough loss in 2017 that it turned there defense average which contributed to their demise certainly in 2017, but I wont.

    Like I said you keep talking out your a** by ignoring FACTS as far as I'm concerned and
    by placing way too much emphasis on playoff success which really means nothing at the end of the day. I hate to keep repeating myself but there are way too many examples in NFL history of teams that didnt have any playoff success the preceding year and subsequently ended up going to the SB the next year that talk of playoff ineptitude has no bearing on whether I feel like a coach (in this case Tomlin) is still capable of getting the team back to a SB. As long as the team isnt a dumpster fire, which it isnt, there's no need to get the impression this team has any less chance of making it to the SB then anyone else, but a lot of things still have to go right just like any other season. Your soul is tied to this team so of course you lose your mind...but anybody who pays attention to history understands it's more about patience then being able claim a couple of playoff wins season after season.

    Team Offense Rank over the years (CORRECTED)...source PRO FOOTBALL REFERENCE
    Points for ranking in ()

    2021 #22 (22)
    2020 #24 (12)
    2019 #30 (27)
    2018 #4 (8)
    2017 #3 (8)
    2016 #7 (11)
    2015 #3 (5)
    2014 #2 (7)
    2013 #20 (17)
    2012 #21 (22)
    2011 #12 (22)
    2010 #14 (12)
    2009 #7 (12)
    2008 #22 (20)
    2007 #17 (9)

    Team Defense Ranking- Source: Pro Football Reference. Points allowed ranking in ().

    2007 - #1(2)
    2008 - #1 (1)
    2009 - #5 (13)
    2010 - #2 (1)
    2011 - #1 (1)
    2012 - #1 (6)
    2013 - #13 (14)
    2014- #18 (18)
    2015 - #12 (11)
    2016 - #12 (10)
    2017 - #5 (7)
    2018 - #6 (17)
    2019 - #5 (6)
    2020 - #3 (3)
    2021 - #26 (22)
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
  6. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    His rating in that SB was the lowest ever, 22.6.

    I think a lot of QB’s could manage that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to weigh in for the defense. XL and XLIII were mostly responsible to the defense.

    The defense allowed 16 ppg in the 2005-06 playoffs. A lot of franchise QBs can score 17 points per game consistently to win with that defense.

    Yes, Ben played well, but his role in the offense was strictly regulated in order to provide him with opportunities for big plays while minimizing his throws and turnovers with a running game. That said the Steelers don't win those Super Bowls without a franchise QB and Ben was our guy.

    If you look at XLIII the Steelers had a 13 point lead going into the 4th. The defense blew the lead by playing mostly soft cover 2 in the 4th when they had been frustrating the Cardinals all night with other coverages. No idea why Lebeau would suddenly switch to a soft cover 2 defense like that. Usually Lebeau got burned playing cover 1 aggressively like the 2004 AFCCG. I put that on coaching.

    Without Ben the Steelers don't win that Super Bowl for sure. Ben was clutch and clutch is hard to find. (That throw to get out of the end zone where Hartwig gave up the safety was clutch too.)
     
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  8. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Except they didn't beat Green Bay, so they weren't a dynasty.
     
  9. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    You can’t ignore what he did in the playoffs. As I said before if the bomb he threw end in the end zone instead of the 1 or 2. Then his rating is around 70 something. You sound like a Ben hater and if that’s the case you are an idiot and shouldn’t be on this forum
     
  10. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    He's simply stating a fact which clearly you have an issue with. I usually separate playoff performances from SB performances and for playoffs Ben has been just fine. I think there's no argument there, but he does have a average QBR rating of 69.9 (as u yourself acknowledged) in SB appearances, and has the lowest QBR rating to date in a SB (at least for a winner), and more INTs then TDs for his career...usually if that were a person's overall stats you wouldn't expect the person to have one SB win, but I'm glad he has 2. You take em how you can get em (as long as u don't cheat in the process). No one said it had to be pretty and if a couple of clutch plays is the difference so be it.
     
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  11. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Payton Manning in the SBs. 3 tds, 5ints ,and 2 fumbles. That's what He did in the SBs, and Some think He's the greatest ever. LoL. Hell He won SB MVP against Chicago with 1td, and 1int. I believe some have been a little biased towards Him:shrug:
     
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  12. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Well what are we talking about here, we are talking about Seiferts playoff record against Tomlins and if you dont think turnover Ben didn’t play a part in that you don’t know jack about football and shouldn’t be on this forum and I can actually make that happen so try not to be a dick in the future.
     
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  13. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    The HC of this team isn't an issue yet. The team had serious personnel deficiencies this year. The coaches cobbled together a bid for the post season with issues they had.

    I am fine with people who think it's time to move on from Tomlin. I won't agree with those that think he is a terrible HC and leader of this team.

    How about you take a look at the over all picture of the team?

    Move onto someone else Tomlin hater. Your hate is well known.
     
  14. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    So I need to be nice to you but you can be a jack ass to me. Oh know kicked off the form. Well I guess if you keep doing that you will be surrounded by people that agree with you. God forbid someone doesn’t have your opinion because they must be wrong. That sounds reasonable
     
  15. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    S
    Sometimes people get an interception because they throw a Hail Mary just before halftime which is not the same as throwing a pick in the middle of the third quarter. A lot of stats don’t tell the TRUTH.
     
  16. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    When was I jerk to you? I responded that Ben had the lowest QBR of a winning SB QB ever and it triggered you.

    Some of you need to be able to have an honest conversation and be objective and not be run by your feelings. The comparison between Tomlin and Seifert is fair and the difference between getting to more championship games and just making the playoffs can absolutely be tied to the QB.

    Montana/Young > Ben.

    Ben has not been very good in the playoffs, its just a fact.

    If you knew how much I defended Ben back when he was in his prime you’d know how ridiculous it is to accuse me of being a Ben hater. I can just acknowledge the flaws he had in his game.

    Calling Tomlin, Switzer is just Tomlin haters trying to insult him because they don’t like him.
     
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  17. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    So you goal post moving comment wasn’t meant to be insulting. Again in your head when you are the judge and jury you are always right. You must have a ton of friends. I am sure you have kicked people off the site before. Did you ever consider that someone would just get another email and password and be right back on the site in about 30 minutes. Just keep thinking your god.
     
  18. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    I am sure Tom Brady would have made the tackle after the bus fumbled. Did that show up on Ben’s QB rating. How many of his interceptions were a tipped ball at the line of scrimmage or a Hail Mary before halftime or the WR had the ball bounce of his hands
     
  19. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    Since his birth in 1982. Ben is the best thing that has happened for the Steelers. They would be stuck at 4 if Ben wasn’t on the team. If we get Eli or Rivers I doubt we win any (not that you can prove it). The Cowher years pretty much proved no matter how great the team it wasn’t going to happen without the QB
     
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  20. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    I do get the fact that Switzer is worse than Tomlin but the seifert comparison is far more ridiculous
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2022
  21. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Wows, really? Ok, how would you like me to say you are changing the argument?

    No, it never occurred to us that people may try to get back on the site.

    This is more of you changing the argument. I’m wasting my time with you. Go wrap yourself up in your irrational Tomlin hate. By the way, he caused the volcano eruption on Tonga.

    PS. Mr Technology, there is a quote function so you can put all replies in one post. Maybe you shouldn’t feel so sure how easy it is to sneak back on after being kicked out of here.
     
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  22. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    Get off my lawn
     
  23. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    To get on the site it takes an email address and a user name. I can get a new one of each in 5 minutes. However the user name would be different. Every person you kicked off is probably already back on here and you don’t know it or they just didn’t feel the need to be on the site and listen to all the nauseating Tomlin love
     
  24. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yup, looks like you have it all figured out.
     
  25. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    IP address and MAC address anyone?
     
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