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Coach T no losing season.. but wait there is more

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SteelHack, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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    Mike Tomlin 2007-2021.
    15 years 0 losing seasons

    Bill Cowher 1992-2006
    15 years 3 losing seasons

    Chuck Noll 1969-1991
    23 years 7 losing seasons


    53 years 10 losing seasons
    43-10

    How many season do you have to go back to get to 10 losing seasons for...

    Browns... go back 11. 3 winning 20 losing since they vame back

    Bengals... go back 21
    10 winning 13 losing in same period

    Ravens... have not lost 10 yet.
    18 winning 8 losing since coming into league

    Pretty amazing

    HACK
     
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  2. Brice

    Brice Well-Known Member

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    Don't the Ravens go back to the Browns?

    Or do you prefer to take them back to the Baltimore Colts?
     
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  3. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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    The browns kept their history and the colts took theirs to Indy

    The Ravens are just the Ravens

    HACK
     
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  4. mytake

    mytake Well-Known Member

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    Take away Noll's first three years because of the rebuild, it's 7 in 50 years.
     
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  5. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Chuck Noll record with Bradshaw:

    107-51 0.677%

    Chuck Noll record without Bradshaw:

    86-97-1 0.475%

    "Non losing seasons" if they were an actual stat would be a QB stat. A great QB can't win in the playoffs without a good team; but they can definitely beat up on average and bad teams and rack up regular season wins.
     
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  6. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yes and no.

    The Browns kept their records. But it's an insult to NFL fans' intelligence for the league to pretend that the Ravens materialized out of nothing. To pretend they're an expansion team. They're not. They're the TRUE Browns, and everyone knows it. Only the most delusional Baltimore fans look at them as a mere 26 year old team. (And I especially love the zealots who want to claim the Colts achievements in Baltimore as part of their "tradition" and record). I'm sorry. But a city is just a city. The franchise is what matters. The NFL should have never allowed Cleveland to keep the records. They did it out of pity and guilt.
     
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  7. SteelersfaninPhilly

    SteelersfaninPhilly Well-Known Member

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    When did the standard becoming no losing seasons? Our last playoff win under Tomlin was Jan 15 2017. Maybe Tomlin is the black version of Marty Schottenheimer.
     
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  8. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    That's the same type of complacency and, dare I say apathy that kept Marvin Lewis around so long in Cincinnati
     
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  9. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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    Actially it was not the NFL... it was Al Lerner playing the long game

    Lerner was flying to Baltimore with Modell....Modell was in no way going to let the city keep the "Browns"

    But Lerner talked him into it. The colors are no good.. no logo... the people of Baltimore don't care about the history.. they think about the Colts. Why spend all that money in court and on lawyers? Get everything new...sell NEW merchandise that the city can be excited about.

    Modell agreed... but what he didn't know was Lerner had already planned to buy the new NFL team in Cleveland and wanted "THE BROWNS"

    that was either from Al Lerners book or Modells book...I don't remember

    HACK
     
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  10. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Jason Garrett had 2 playoff wins in his last 6 seasons. That's the same as Tomlin this year but next year Tomlin will have 0 playoff wins in 6 years during a rebuild.
     
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  11. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    Or maybe Marty was the white Tomlin?
    Why does race matter?
     
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  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That is if you accept the league's BS, which I don't. The franchise that was the Browns is now in Baltimore calling itself the Ravens. The current Browns are the expansion team Cleveland got a few years later.

    I get that there was dealing going on among the teams, but the league still sells it. Sorry, but it's crap.
     
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  13. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    All I know is that the Stains sucked back in the day as they do today. JMO>
     
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  14. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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    Did you really just ask when not losing became the goal?

    Not losing is the standard in all of sports.... from the NFL to back yard corn hole at the family reunion

    Let's look at the most wins since 1970...51 years

    1 Pittsburgh Steelers
    495-310-4
    61.4% winning
    32 years in playoffs (YIP)
    36 Playoff games won (PGW)
    6 RINGS

    2 Dallas Cowboys
    471-338
    58.2%
    30 YIP
    34 PGW
    5 RINGS

    3 New England Patriots
    466-343
    57.6%
    27 YIP
    36 PGW
    6 RINGS

    4th Miami 2 rings
    5th Denver 3 rings
    7rh 49ers 5 rings
    8th Packers 2 rings

    16 teams are above 50% the last 51 years.... they have 43 rings (84%)

    16 under 50% 8 rings and 4 of those belong to the Giants


    So here is the million dollar question... the top 3 winning teams have 17 (33%)) and many of you think that is not a true stat of success.

    So my question is what does? What team do you think is the one doing it right? Who do you wish the Steelers were more like?

    HACK
     
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  15. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Why is half of sports media running stories about Tomlin being the last black head coach in the NFL? It shouldn't matter but pretending race doesn't matter today is just being ridiculous.

    Notice how the goalposts moved too- LV and WSH have Hispanic coaches and NYJ have an Arab coach but that's not good enough. Those minority coaches don't exist right now. They've been unpersonned.

    I watched the Rob Parker show and he could not have been more angry that Houston fired a black head coach who went 4-13. It's pretty funny. So Houston wasn't racist last year when they hired a black head coach but is racist this year when they fired a black head coach for going 4-13? Make that make sense.

    Tomlin has been blown out and humiliated in his last 4 playoff appearances. He has fewer playoff wins in his last 5 seasons than Jason Garrett or Mike McCarthy, had in their last 5 seasons. Those coaches faced weekly calls to be fired and McCarthy still is.

    The only thing on ESPN about Tomlin is "he's one of the best coaches in the NFL." It is a mantra. 21 different head coaches (maybe more but 21 teams) have a playoff win since Tomlin does. Not even a mention of a hot seat.

    ...

    Pete Carroll should be fired. He has 1 playoff win in the last 5 years with a HOF QB. The Seahawks are trending down.

    The scenario is almost identical to Tomlin's except Carroll's Super Bowl win is 5 years more recent and he built the defense with the front office, it wasn't inherited, and he drafted the franchise QB.

    How come Carroll being fired is a common topic in sports media but Tomlin is just "one of the best coaches" after 1 successful season in the last 11?
     
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  16. 58stillers

    58stillers

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    I'm not sure that all the credit or discredit should go to the coach. I heard a stat on one broadcast that said something like Big Ben has only had (??) one or maybe it was a couple (can't remember) games in his 18 year career where a playoff game was not on the line. Meaning in 18 seasons the steelers were either in the playoffs or not mathematically eliminated by the last game of the season. I'm not sure if the credit should go with the coach or the player. During that time there have been several OC's, so I'm inclined to give a bit more credit to the player (Ben) than necessarily HC Tomlin.

    In any case, I would not complain about the Steelers successes, but it is a bit disheartening to have so little success in the playoffs. It should take little time to figure out.... if Ben truly retires, Tomlin will have the challenge of fielding a non-losing team with a new QB.

    Edit: just a little more info, Tomlin is obviously the only of the 3 coaches to have an entire career with one QB. Noll made the playoffs with Bradshaw, Stout, Malone and Brister. Cowher had an equally dismal list of non-franchise QB's lead the team (O'Donnell, Tomczak, Stewart, Maddox, Ben) . Tomlin has benefited from Ben being special, now it's time to see what kind of coach he really is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
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  17. SteelersFanCanada

    SteelersFanCanada Well-Known Member

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    Careful who you let see this kinda information lol.
     
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  18. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    IMO you should grade your coaches vs expectations. 5-6 wins in Jacksonville next season might be considered a good step forward. 5-6 wins in Tampa, NE, GB, KC, or any other team with playoff aspirations would be a total failure. 8 or 9 wins might be good for some teams. 1 season in the last 10 or 11 years with post season victories on a team stacked with talent is a total failure. You can't sugar coat that.

    You have to put judgement into context. The last time we lost 9 or 10 games it was actually not a shock... that team had lost almost every key player, it was a total rebuild. The issues that did exist over the past 10 seasons were rarely addressed year after year. That's also red flag. How can our running game get worse every season after Bell left? The owners publicly demanded improvement running the ball and I think we just produced the 32nd worst yards per carry in the NFL w/ a #1 draft pick. (corrections - 29th in yards per carry) Pretty sure we shattered the steelers record books in futility running the ball, passing the ball, and stopping the run.

    MT totally deserves to be judged on history and not just one season. His past success earned him that right. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass for ever. If we had been competitive in the post season year after year during Ben's prime then this season we lost 10 games... I could write that off. You cannot write off zero progress and underachieving 10 of the last 11 seasons. That's ok in Cinci or Cleveland or Chicago. It's not ok here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
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  19. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    In regards to expectations you can't be losing 9 games with elite talent. So comparing us to these other teams that have had losing seasons is not logical.

    Sure we didn't have a losing season but Jesus... how do you lose 9 games with Ben, Bell, AB, Harrison, Watt, Cam, numerous great WR's, great O-line's and great D-lines? 9 losses on some of those teams without a catastrophic injury to Ben would be unthinkable. Ben's decline after the elbow surgery should not have been a major shock considering his age. The team had time to adjust the offense to maximize his skills. You saw this with plenty of other HOF Qb's at the end of their careers. Surrounding Ben with a horrible O-line and mediocre WR's is just blatantly stupid and maybe arrogant. How can a HC be so unaware of their personnel? We have talent on the defense. We have used some serious draft capitol improving the defense and WR's over the past several seasons. The secondary was so bad we needed to bring in expensive vets to plug holes. Where would we be with out Minkah and Haden these past few seasons?
     
  20. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin has 9 seasons out of the last 11 years without a playoff win. Cowher's worst 11 year stretch had 5 seasons without a playoff win. Chuck Noll in his worst 11 year stretch had 9 seasons without a playoff win (81-91).
    Tomlin had 4 seasons that had at least one playoff win in 15 years (26%). Cowher had 8 seasons with at least one playoff win in 15 years (53%).
     
  21. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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  22. Fe3CCity

    Fe3CCity Well-Known Member

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    Can we address component that may add weight?
    Can we please look, over the past few years, the cap hit % a star QB that has won the SB occupied.

    I think there may be a systematic issue in the pay scale for QBs. I would bet that over the past 15 years there has not been a QB that has had a cap hit over ~13% of the teams allocated funds on a SB winner.

    I would love to be corrected wrong but ben at up a lot of space.
    It's really hard to stock the fridge with a 250 lbs turkey inside.
     
  23. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    A perfect place to remember the Marino fiasco. Chuck may not have won 4 more SBs with Dan, he'll he did not win any in Miami, but I bet the losing per centage would not be as bad, jmho.
     
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  24. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    I'm too young to know what happened in the 80s for the Dolphins. The first time I watched Marino was 1994 on MNF.

    Definitely Noll would have had one of the best teams with Marino. It's tough to miss on those. Hindsight can be brutal.
     
  25. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    He took two teams in the 80s to afc championship games with guys named Brister and Malone..Marino with an agi g Stallworth and young Louis Lipps..oh yes my hindsight memory gets excited
     
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