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What will it take or what has to happen…

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by steel_ben7, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. KMM

    KMM Well-Known Member

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    By every measure, meaning multiple organizations crunching numbers by whatever methods they've developed, they all point to Ben being a below NFL average QB. It's easy to discount outliers, but when they all point to the same conclusion, that's a different story. There seems to be consensus no matter how you slice it or what angle you come from. Not a good sign.

    That doesn't mean he's the biggest issue the Steelers have, just that you have to acknowledge it is a problem.
     
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  2. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    Those rankings are based on yards only. Try looking at where we rank on points allowed and points scored we look much worse. Points is what wins a game not yards
     
  3. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    You should have posted it so we can see what you're talking about. I dont see how it's going to make a difference. It all seems to go hand and hand to me. If the Steelers arent moving the ball that translates to an unimpressive yardage number for either passing or rushing (if not both) which means they're not scoring many points which would correlate with their overall offensive ranking. This also applies vice versa.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
  4. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    In 2012 we had the number 1 defense (yards allowed). Yet we ranked 6 in points allowed. On offense in 2011 we ranked 12 (yards gained). We ranked 21st in points scored. Sometimes they are flipped I just think points for and against is better
     
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  5. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    What's your source for all of these stats??
     
  6. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    nfl.com/stats/team
     
  7. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    I dont think that was his source. ESPN or Pro Reference was his source if anything. NFL.com doesnt provide Total Stats and I highly doubt he did the math for all the teams to figure out where the Steelers ranked. In addition I'm not sure if I get his point. If he's simply just saying points against and points scored are a better sign of how good a team is doing I dont know if that's the case or not. It usually all comes out in the wash with the final record. Screenshot_20211205-062143_Firefox.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  8. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    I went back and added the PF and PA in parenthesis. There's only 2-3 seasons where the yards total didnt accurately reflect how good or bad they were doing scoring or allowing points. They we're usually within 5 rankings of each other either way. What it does show is that Steelers fans have grossly overrated this team as far as a team as a whole. Aside from the SB seasons and 2017 and 2018 theres not really a season a person can point to and say the numbers reflect a SB contender...if they're being honest.

    Team Offense Rank over the years (CORRECTED)...source PRO FOOTBALL REFERENCE
    Points for ranking in ()

    2021 (CURRENTLY) #25 (24)
    2020 #24 (12)
    2019 #30 (27)
    2018 #4 (8)
    2017 #3 (8)
    2016 #7 (11)
    2015 #3 (5)
    2014 #2 (7)
    2013 #20 (17)
    2012 #21 (22)
    2011 #12 (22)
    2010 #14 (12)
    2009 #7 (12)
    2008 #22 (20)
    2007 #17 (9)

    Team Defense (CORRECTED) - Pro Football Reference. Points allowed ranking in ().

    2007 - #1(2)
    2008 - #1 (1)
    2009 - #5 (13)
    2010 - #2 (1)
    2011 - #1 (1)
    2012 - #1 (6)
    2013 - #13 (14)
    2014- #18 (18)
    2015 - #12 (11)
    2016 - #12 (10)
    2017 - #5 (7)
    2018 - #6 (17)
    2019 - #5 (6)
    2020 - #3 (3)
    2021 (Currently) - #20 (16)

    One thing I definitely have to do is go back and see what happened with the 2018 season. They finished 9-6-1. They didnt even make the playoffs. My guess is that injuries derailed it but aside from 2017 that season may be another huge black eye for Tomlin. At least with 2017 we know Ryan Shazier's injury was devastating to the defense altho I still feel like they should have beaten Jacksonville.

    EDIT: idk what happened with 2018. I know they lost 3 straight games to AFC West opponents in the latter part of the season which included a 3-12 Oakland team at the time. That season also reflects badly upon Tomlin along with the 2017 season.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  9. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    Simply stats like those can be misleading - need to take into account D and ST TDs and short fields. Football Outsiders' DVOA rankings are a lot more nuanced, but you gotta pay for them.
     
  10. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    I dont think they're so misleading that a Steeler fan who is rational and thinks clear headedly should believe this team over the years was this big juggernaut as a whole. I think either way it's time for Steeler fans to admit they have grossly overrated this team as a complete unit over the years. Aside from 2017 and 2018 and the SB years what years could a fan really look at and say this team belonged in the SB or should have had as good a chance as any of making it??
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  11. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    Surprised you put 2018 in there...they were in play from 2014->2017, 2009 was the year between two Super Bowls.
     
  12. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    They were shooting themselves in the foot all 2018. I distinctly remember Conner fumbling at least in 3 key situations including their first game they played against Cleveland and tied. I remember Juju having a real bad fumble in one of the games also. Chris Boswell was having all kinds of issues kicking, and of course the terrible loss to the Raiders in Oakland. Clearly there was some locker room issues ...at least between Ben and AB. They struggled a lot of course with Shazier not being there in the middle, but it was just a really disappointing season.

    Ironically my AVI was from that year. They needed help getting in from Cleveland in hopes they would beat Baltimore and they were scoreboard watching after beating Cincinnatti.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  13. hmmmmm

    hmmmmm Well-Known Member

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    Dec 17, 2020
    Pro football reference
     

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