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The Good Bad and Sad (Current snapshot of the Steelers)

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Chinchilla, Jan 18, 2021.

  1. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    If we assume the Rooneys will not sell out the franchise and Tomlin and Ben stay what is your opinion of the current state of the team and its depth as we go into FA and the draft?

    In a nutshell...

    Good

    The WR crew even with JuJu possibly leaving due to FA
    The TEs (Ebron seems to have had drop issues throughout his career from what I read)
    Boz and Berry
    The DBs (In modern pass happy referee friendly era they were more than serviceable)*
    The evolution of Highsmith given the lack of reps

    Bad

    The Oline in general. I hope the team could try to optimize with what they have and utilize the personnel strengths ..whether thats zone blocking or whatever.

    I guess my point is that there was no identity of what they tried to be... which led to so many debates if its BB or poor conditioning or poor scheme which was revealing via personnel and formation packages that BB would call based on what the OC RF told him as the plays to run.

    Sad

    I know Im nitpicking here and he is trending upwards on interceptions but *Terrill Edmunds development appears to be a concern.

    He always seems to be a step behind or is flat footed and I dont know if that football sense could be taught but what do I know.

    Thoughts? Agree? Disagree?
     
  2. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    QB is a big question mark. If Ben is healthy and ready to play then fine. He's not done like people like to claim.. we were 11-0 not long ago and he was a big part of that. The offense was IMO the biggest problem. Late in games when Ben was calling the plays he was a different QB. You can't ask him to carry the offense any more. He needs balance. no running game and WR's that drop balls is a recipe for disaster for most teams and most QB's. Mason is a good back up iMO and could potentially start.

    O-line -is in bad shape. Probably needs a starting C and OT. This is starting to look like a total rebuild for the O-line w/ a new coach coming in. We need capable bodies to compete with the current starters. Make it a competition at every O-line position but make sure you have legit competition.

    WR's - 1 good young WR on the roster is not good a good WR crew. Washington and Johnson are not good WR's. AVG at best if they could catch. A WR with bad hands is a bad WR. He causes turnovers and punts. Most NFL WR's can catch a 10 yard pass. It will not be difficult to find an upgrade.

    TE - Ebron is equal to McDonald. McDonald can actually catch and he breaks tackles. Ebron leads TE's in drops and did so while in Indy as well. He's nothing special blocking . Has some speed but isn't a strong runner with the ball. You cannot have 2 pass targets leading the league in drops. You will never win in the playoffs with that kind of inconsistency. With the worst rushing game in the league you probably need TE's that can block.

    RB - We need to get RB's back into the pass catching game as well. We had a really good FB on the roster but never used him to block. I actually think our RB's would be fine if we had an O-line and a deep pass threat. Not many RB's are capable running behind that line, running that offense that brings defenses up to the LOS. That said if talented power back is available when we pick, take him.

    Secondary- is not "GOOD" . Above AVG w/ a good pass rush is more realistic. Haden and Minkah are good. I like Hilton but he's likely gone. They need to upgrade Edmonds and Nelson. The starting DB's are solid if all are healthy. We don't have any depth. Edmonds is not good. We lose 1 DB to injury and there's a gaping hole. Steve Nelson is not a #1 corner.... he was owned when Haden was out.

    LB - I like Highsmith as a replacement to Bud. But we need a capable back up. We also need to replace Williams and we need to improve depth at the LB position. Bud was the only LB we could afford to lose w/ Highsmith on the roster. We now have no one backing up the OLB and Spillane IMO is not a legit ILB. He's a back up to Williams at best. So we need a back up to Bush.

    D-line - Solid but desperately needs depth. Tuitt and Cam are old and not playing their best ball. Alualu is aging as well. We really need some youth that can step in and start or at least challenge the starters.


    For the first time in a long time I can honestly say I would not have a problem using our #1 pick at any position ...besides kicker and long snapper. :) TE at the #1 spot would probably be stupid unless there's some game changing TE available. Given our late pick O-line seems to be the most obvious direction to go on day 1.
     
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  3. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    The WR drops this year still really bother me, I really thought our WR's were going to be much more consistent this year. Based on last year, you would have thought DJ would have made a huge leap forward. Instead of Good, I would say it is a big question mark.

    I still wonder if Ben was hurt this year after the Dallas game. They couldn't start the same guards all year. It definitely could have affected Ben's game.

    Edmunds was a 1st rounder and it sux he doesn't play like it. But he isn't bad. Not every guy on your team is gonna be all pro. I get madder at players you expect to ball game in and out and don't ... like Heyward getting shoved around by a 3rd string guard.

    I wouldn't mind clearing out the entire TE room.
     
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  4. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    You all crack me up with your zero tolerance for drops, blinds you to talent.

    DJ, Jeudy and Lamb led the league in drops, 10 and 9 respectively. All three will be among the best receivers in the league.
     
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  5. Steelrules

    Steelrules Well-Known Member

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    DJ recognizes his problems and is working hard to correct it. I’m confident that he will become one of the elites. Ebron and his lazy ass not so much
     
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  6. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I don’t know what was going on with him this year, but he only had 3 drops last year and didn’t have a drop problem in college. It’s not a career long issue so the problem is correctable.

    Most of his drops look like he is focused on running after the catch. He’ll fix it. His ability to get open with ease is what sets him apart.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. Steelrules

    Steelrules Well-Known Member

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    You brought up a good point. The receivers are expected to turn a 3-5 yard pass into 8-10 yards and are focused on the run before securing the pass
     
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  8. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    O line is my biggest worry. My second is D line getting pushed around in the run game....I have mostly no problem with them in the pass game. T. Edmunds....I really can't get behind. My 3 biggest worries.
     
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  9. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for breaking it all down like you did MD. I felt that the Young Money Crew II were an asset but point taken about the drops being a liability.
     
  10. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I didn't like the pick at the time, but Johnson is a keeper. Clearly, the drops got in his head for a few weeks, but he got better in the final few games. Part of the problem was the focus on short passes. Just catching the ball was almost never enough, which led to him not focusing on the catch some consistently.

    The guy can get open running all sorts of routes. He just needs a quarterback who can get him the ball. It still looks like he could get a little stronger, too, but the Steelers do have two quality starters. The real question is if Washington can step up to be a good No. 3. That didn't happen this season, even before Claypool started making a big contribution.
     
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  11. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Good
    • good receivers that can get down the field and get open, drops can be solved hopefully
    • Good defensive line and good players throughout the defence in Bush, Minkah
    Bad

    • Ageing quarterback and no successor
    • Ageing offensive line, multi year fix required
    • Below average running back room
    • Multiple starters / contributors hitting free agency, Juju, Bud, Feiler, AV, Hilton, Sutton and the list goes on
    Ugly
    • Cap situation is bad, we won’t know how bad exactly until the league announce the final cap figure but it’s going to be a crazy offseason as they get back to compliance
    • Tendency to fall apart late season, three years running, four if you count Jags 2017
    The Steelers medium to long term future at some of the most important positions on the field is very uncertain. Their Quarterback, Left Tackle and top Corner are all close to the end. These are the hardest positions to draft and the most expensive to fill via free agency. If you look at all the top teams they are good in these areas. Steelers need to replace their ageing starters at all three in the next two drafts. A tall order.
     
  12. Lambert

    Lambert Well-Known Member

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    LB injuries, OL age, QB play, and bad coaching were the problems.

    Bush healthy, two good OL picks, and a new OC is a good start.

    DJ is gonna be very good so Juju can go.

    I would really, really prefer we just eat cap issues now and focus on '22... but that won't happen.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Jerry Jeudy is likely going to be the best route runner in due time. His advanced understanding of Route Concepts and counters against the Defensive Converges that teams attempt to trap him will yield big dividends. His biggest reason why he will succeed is he can separate effortlesslym. Diontae does not have the same level of understanding of route concepts that Jeudy does but his freakish explosiveness and quickness make this honestly a non factor in the end. For that matter, Diontae's ability to seperate is easily Top 10 in the league at present.




    Of the others mentioned, between the 2019 and 2020 class of Receivers, CeeDee Lamb and N'Keal Harry are two of a handful of Receivers that worry me. Both have great hands but both cannot seperate well; doubly so for CeeDee. That said, getting better at reading coverages will pay off but the lack of separation will hinder both greatly.
     
  14. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Regarding my thoughts on the team right now and moving forward?! I have my share of thoughts and would like to offer my opinion. Here they are as listed below!


    The Good:


    - Devin Bush, Minkah Fitzpatrick and T.J. Watt (contract extension) will all be under contract.


    - The 2020 Draft Haul looks to be a success thus far despite no 1st Round Pick..... Unless one really wants to count Minkah Fitzpatrick (more on them in a bit).


    - Chase Claypool just does not have the potential to be a Top Five Wide Receiver but a perennial All Pro as well. His ceiling, talent and skillset are immeasurable.


    - Kevin Dotson looks to be a keeper and will only get better from here on out.


    - Chukwuma Okorafor had a better year than others gave him credit for. I expect him to be a rock solid Left Tackle.


    - Alex Highsmith has Pro Bowl potential. Hard to say if he will be an All Pro but I would not count him out.



    The Bad:


    - James Conner and Benny Snell Jr.'s unimaginable regression did not assist the Running Game (much more on the Running Game later).


    - The disappearance of Vance McDonald during the entire season. For that matter, the lack of two Tight End sets (more on this later).



    - Justin Layne's Sophomore Slump. I seriously hope this is simply still him learning the position given the fact his time as a Corner has been limited to only four years dating back to his fifth game in his Freshman Season. I do believe he can be a major factor but his time is short.


    - Joe Haden's slow decension into mediocrity. This was evident during the second half of the season.



    The Sad:


    - Randy Fichnter. Not wasting my time on him as I wanted him gone after the 2019 season. Glad he is. Lack of Offensive Creativity, lack of Igenuity, lack of personnel mismatches overall.


    - The gradual regression of Big Ben. Personally, I believe he is either close to being done or done all together. I seriously hope Matt Canada has the full controls here for if he does not; expect Mike Tomlin's first losing season and final season in the Black n Gold.


    - The complete regression of all Offensive Lineman not named David Decastro, Kevin Dotson and Chukwuma Okorafor. Maurkice Pouncey, Big Al and Matt Feiler all need to ready their walking papers.. NOW.



    - JuJu Smith Schuster's decension into solo act brand building. This also affected Chase Claypool as well for he never showed any of this at Notre Dame. This would rear its head even more so as the season went on.



    - The overall lack of leadership and preparation throughout the season. From Big Al making the airwaves yet again in Week One to JuJu's TikTok antics throughout the season, the drama never stopped. This all came into a head during Super Wild Card Weekend when JuJu gave the Browns bulletin board material. While I doubt those statements had much impact in the game thanks to the snowballing effect of the lack of preparation, no doubt were the Browns motivated by those comments.



    - The injury bug. Every team suffered through this and I knew soft tissue injuries were going to be through the roof. Even so, losing both Devin Bush and Bud Dupree ultimately sent the 2020 Pittsburgh Steelers to Davy Jones Locker.



    - 2021 Cap Implications. What is going to be the Salary Cap remains to be seen as some have reported $175 Million while the optimistic reports state $198 million. Never mind any of this though, Big Ben essentially needs to sign a One YearExtension to give the team any wiggle room. T.J. Watt and Minkah Fitzpatrick need to be dealt by extension and the fifth year the same.


    - 2021 Combine Crisis. The 2021 NFL Combine is essentially the "Mother of All Gambles" as COVID 19 has dealt the Scouting Community an immense blow. While this does not likely change Kevin Colbert's Draft Plans much in terms of positions, who he is after is of another story.



    BIG ONE



    - Mike Tomlin himself. I believe this is it for him in 2021. Either he get this team to the promised land or he will continue with his life's work elsewhere. Add the fact he has the most difficult schedule to take on come 2021 and this just may be his toughest outing yet. With a QB who is beyond his glory days, major cap implications, an Offensive Line in dire need of a rebuild and extensions and restructures on the table, for me personally, this will determine if Mike Tomlin can surmount arguably his greatest challenge and prove that no matter what....


    "The Standard Is the Standard"




    Overall though, there is plenty to be nervous about for me here. Personally and, keep in mind, I have only been a fan since 2008. I cannot share any thoughts or feelings of fans regarding the times after the retirement of Terry Bradshaw to Big Ben. While I doubt the team will be waiting another generation for a QB to carry them to the promised land; I also doubt that the Steelers have the answer.... for now.



    I do not see
    "the guy" in this years draft anyway and have stated that multiple times. 2022 on the other hand?! That will be the time to strike. Until then?! Build that Offensive Line when "the guy" is discovered for he will need it just like Big Ben did when he first started out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
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  15. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    Glad I read all of these with all their new information that I haven't heard before.
     
  16. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Call me naïve but I like our nucleus. Yes we need pieces but doesn't
    thirty other teams?
     
  17. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    It’s not naive at all, they have some very good players. My fear is that the Steelers are old in all the wrong places however. The next couple of drafts are probably the most important since 2004 when they drafted BR.

    They need to lay the foundations for the next team after Ben, Pouncey, Al, Haden and other are gone.
     
  18. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    His run blocking was nothing short of disastrous. I can't count the number of times I yelled him through the TV screen for flat out whiffing on his responsibilities in the run game. It was a regular occurrence, and he made it nearly impossible for a RB to find space off tackle to his side. He was capable enough at pass protection for a RT, but I am not sold that he is good enough to protect the blind side.
     
  19. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

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    Leak.jpe
     
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  20. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    His Run Blocking has less to do with his athletic ability and a lot more to do with his technics and hand placement. That said, I suppose Shaun Sarrett possibly was not teaching this as well as I thought given the Offenses performance throughout the first four weeks of the Season. That said, I still believe he can be.



    Keep in mind he is only 23 Years of age. Sky is still the limit for him.
     
  21. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Run blocking is also about disposition. The most effective run blockers have a streak of nastiness in them. In simplest terms, when pass protecting you're trying to hold your ground and impede someone who is trying to get past you. In run blocking, you're going hunting after a defender to move him somewhere that he doesn't want to go. It takes a certain attitude that pass blocking doesn't. Chuks seems OK using his athleticism to backpedal and keep a pass rusher at bay, but when he goes hunting for defenders in the run game he looks...non-assertive.
     
  22. Steelrules

    Steelrules Well-Known Member

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    What’s the chance of us being opportunistic during the offseason? The cap is going to affect every team and some decent players will be casualties.
     
  23. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    I would not count on it. In the end the cap crunch may not be as bad as feared, but any outside free agents will still be of the bargain basement variety I would think. There could be some good value to be had but other teams are in a much better position to take advantage of that.

    They only have 35 players signed to the roster as things stand, and you’re probably looking at several of those retiring or being cut or traded so they need to find another 20 + players between the draft and free agency (including their own pending free agents). Most years they’d have 40 - 45 signed at this point so it’s going to be a busy off season for the front office.

    It might be a year where trading back for additional picks could or should be considered. I’m sure the front office have a plan and will navigate their way through it. The outcome likely won’t be what any of us are expecting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  24. burghfan58

    burghfan58 Well-Known Member

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    Many of the drops should have been catches, but I still think it is a shared blame between the WRs and Ben. Ben later in the season was not able to hit them in stride even on the short passes. Too many times he delivered it late.
     
  25. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Since it wasn’t just DJ that was dropping passes but Claypool and Ebron, someone mentioned if the ball was coming out of Bens hand differently, maybe trying to compensate if his elbow was bothering him. Don’t know if I buy that but just weird the 3 receivers had a case of the yips at the same time.
     
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