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Run - N - Shoot Influence?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Chinchilla, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    I barely remember the R & S but although gimmicky...I was always surprised with modern rules football why it was not revisited more by teams in special personnel packages.

    Like everyone else..I wanted to see some more balance this year as the weather gets nastier in the run game to give teams limitations on what they can key on in film study.

    Anyways..I see these little cross patterns with a bit of a rub route that I remember Welker doing so well and was wondering if these plays....high percentage completions (minus the batted balls which I wish BB would pump fake more often) was a modern version of the R & S.

    I vaguely remember O'Donnell and Slash going with 4/5 wide when Cowher had Earhart change his play calling with these quick hits but nothing so beautiful to watch as seeing Ray Ray get 7 yards.

    Manny Sanders would have also flourished IMO.

    It does negate the blitz and rush attack with the quick hits and then some play action over the top.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    I think the Run And Shoot offense had the same life span as the Wildcat. Gimmicky offenses get figured out pretty quickly in the NFL. Smash Mouth and PA are the formulas for success but you need a great Oline and Defense to to go with that to win Championships.
     
  3. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya. The more I think about it ...the R & S is more a finesse type style in my opinion and Steelers and the word finesse just do not seem to ever go hand in hand.
     
  4. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    I think the run and shoot lasted longer (and was superior to) the wildcat, but that's not saying much. The key to the R&S is having the right skill players to run it.
    I don't know what the key to the wildcat is. 'Don't turn it over' I guess.
     
  5. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    You can have an effective running game in the run-and-shoot. It really is just about spreading the field and running a lot of option routes.
     
  6. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    It always has, and always will, come down to putting the right players into your scheme. The better suited your players are to the scheme, the more effective that scheme will be.

    The wildcat is either implemented as a gimmick to throw at a defense and hopefully catch them off guard a few times a game, used to compensate for a lack of offensive balance, or to capitalize on a specially talented playmaker who needs the ball in his hands in creative ways. It isn't an offensive style.

    The run and shoot's hey day was basically the entire 1990's. But it didn't catch on. Like @groutbrook said, you have to have the skill players to be successful.

    Thing is, it's mainly motion and wide receivers adjusting routes based on the defense. That's primarily what we do. And we happen to have the playmakers to do it. Without a running game, however, the timing can be disrupted and passing lanes can get easily clogged. That might be one of the reasons Ben is having so many balls batted down. The defensive line isn't being drive blocked and since Ben is getting the ball out so quickly, they aren't being moved off their spot. The OL hardly has time to engage and move them or even allow the pocket to form. On most plays, Ben doesn't have much time to allow his receivers to run open. Many times, he is throwing before they come out of their breaks, and if there is a lineman between he and the receiver, he's still letting it rip.

    This kind of is the new run and shoot. And maybe the limits that covid is placing on team practices is making it harder for teams to work on how to stop it. Don't expect us to be as successful with it next season, though. They will catch up to us. But hopefully not until next season.
     
  7. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Buffalo Bills ran the run and shoot for years under jimmy Kelly.
     
  8. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    The Bills ran the K-gun under Jim Kelly. It could probably be considered a variation of the run and shoot.
     
  9. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    By 'run it' I meant execute it. Meaning all the receivers have the ability to stretch the field, and a durable running back who can protect the QB when needed. Some college teams still use the R&S with varying degrees of success.
     
  10. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    As much as I hate Belichick I need to give credit to arguably one of the best game plan implementations I ever seen to neutralize the K gun.

    I remember Harry Carson saying how they get into the room and Belichick is saying that we need to get Thurman Thomas his 100 yards slowly. They used a three man front and it was effective.

    I saw the Raiders once do a hurry up with Rich Gannon against the Steelers with quick hits and the LBs were never able to get close to him with the cross fire blitz and all that.

    I know I am oversimplifying but even Carson Palmer would read where the blitz would come and throw to that side where we the Steelers gave the 10 yard cushion. Sorry to digress but thanks for everyone's input.

    My point was that these quick hit passes underneath with the athletes to do the YAC appears to be very effective.

    I think Ben always wanted this and the Steelers tried with several but finally have a Ray Ray and Dionte, etc
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I think Jimmy Kelly worked under Mouse Davis when he was with Gamblers.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. Davis was the offensive coordinator for the Gamblers in 1984, Kelly's rookie season. The following year, he became the head coach of the Denver Gold. Both teams ran the run-and-shoot.

    Kelly had some amazing talent around him. Ricky Sanders ended up being an excellent receiver with the Redskins. Richard Johnson was the perfect run-and-shoot receiver. He had a 1,000-yard season with the Lions when they ran it. Clarence Verdin and Gerald McNeil were both receivers in the NFL, though they were better at returning kicks. Running back Todd Fowler ended up getting decent money to play fullback for the Cowboys.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    Good point.
     

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